Politically incorrect or tastless?

[Vince Twelve]

- What if the most influential people, (those that have the most money, power and fame,) use this to control the media to dish out only 75% truth, 20% theory, and 5% blatant errors/lies? 

What if the media dishes out so much theory and blatant error in order to sensationalize stories and raise the ratings?  What if the media always let the crazies with extreme viewpoints have more camera time than level-headed people because the crazies preaching conspiracy theories make for better TV?  What if people were so dumb that they believed everything the media shoved down their sad gullible gullets and started believing everything they heard?

- What if Bush is just a puppet. Maybe going over to Iraq was just a ploy to get complete control over the oil situation. I heard somewhere that Saddam was selling so much oil that it brought the price of oil down. What better way to get the prices back up slowing down the sale. (Off the subject, I heard Microsoft was going to do this with the 360 so that it would sell out... making it easier to keep the prices very high.)

What if the sky was blue?  The president of this country has always had to act like a puppet, acting according to the collective will of the people who elected him/her to that position.  The issue you seem to be reaching at is whether or not it is the people of the country who now keep the president in power.  What if corporate interests (and their campain domations) have more power over the president's actions?  i.e. Bush's oil companies are tired of competing with Iraqi oil so he took out Iraq and let our oil companies drill in Alaska.   This is a fairly valid question, though not really connected to this thread.

- What if the American people are distracted by what Bush stands for? He says he is against abortion, abortions still exist in the US. He says he is against Gay/Lesbian marriages... they still get married. He says he is against illegal imigration...yet their allowed a legal residence status. But these are issues we worry about and vote for or against... what's happening behind the scenes though? These are evidently trivial in comparison to a much grander conspiracy. 

Are you insinuating that Bush only claims to be against these issues (that happen to be issues that you are against)  but if he really were against them he would have done something about it, therefore there's a conspiracy?  What if the president were allowed to rule according to his own whim, bypassing checks and balances and imposing his own crazy religiously-fueled ideas upon an unwilling public.  Would you believe he had a secret conspiracy then?

- What if religion was getting in the way of the power mongers? Religous freedom is non existent today. The whole reason why most people left Europe, and migrated to America, was to freely practice their religion. Now we have lossed that priveledge.

What if you lived in a country where millions of people practiced thousands of religions freely?  What if we had any idea what you are talking about?

- What if God and the Devil do exist? We are right smack in between this spiritual war. The Devil is using everything in his power to bring as many souls to Hell. "Misery desires company."

What if this question had anything to do with a discussion about Bush's politics.

- What if natural catastrophies, wars, etc., are signs from God? Sometimes bad things can have a butterfly effect of change. Without evil, we would already be in Heaven... (sanity check... this is not Heaven!) 

What if natural catastrophies have always been happening?  What if natural catastrophies are signs from the planet that we should stop abusing it?  What if that butterfly effect is not from me eating shellfish (Leviticus 11:10 - 11:11) but is coming from pollution, drilling in Alaska, the decline in the pirate population, global warming and all that?  Furthermore, what if people are percieving natural catastrophies as getting worse because that media we discussed earlier are making a much bigger deal about it for ratings purposes? 

And finally, what if there is no heaven?  Just throwing that one in there for good measure.

[DGMacphee]

And finally, what if there is no heaven?  Just throwing that one in there for good measure.

It's easy to imagine if you try.

I AM THE WALRUS GOO GOO G'JOOB

[rharpe]

What if the extreme viewpoints are accurate? 
What if people couldn't decipher between the medias truth or lies... can you?
What if the crazy religiously-fueled ideas placed upon an unwilling public were not the presidents?
What if you lived in a country where millions of people practiced thousands of religions, yet you were not allowed to practice your own?
What if there is no heaven?  Then again...What if there is?

What if I were running for the presidency... would you vote for me? 

[Vince Twelve]

Yeah... what if?

What if you lived in a country where millions of people practiced thousands of religions, yet you were not allowed to practice your own?

Who are you talking about?

[Mr Jake]

So this is what its like if the world's favorite words were "What if"
Can we go back to "Ok" please?

[Nikolas]

So this is what its like if the world's favorite words were "What if"
Can we go back to "Ok" please?

What if we didn't?

Political in/correct: I've been in Uk, USA, France and Greece of course. Out of these 4 countries USA and UK are the ones with the most political correctness minds (<- You understand what I mean right?). Well the first time I walked in a high street shop and saw a sign saying watch your head (although the door was tall enough for me to pass unharmed and I'm 1.94m) it made me think: "How nice, the store is so considered of the clients. How nice, indeed...". When I started seeing this kind of signs everywhere I started thinking "Shit, they must think that all human being living here (London, Egham), are stupid, so stupid as not to take care their own self."I mean from the moment that some person in some point in history won a battle in the courts about something simmilar (and thus creating a history in the court), everyone was obligated to make signs like this. It is impossilbe to be fair to everyone, by default. Can you name me one (1) thing that will not bother anyone? I think not. And since we live in a world that bans holidays (check Darths thread), all that we could do in order to stay politcal correct is to not do anything. And maybe this could be insulting to some guy who can't move? Who knows? And you know what? Political correctness is something that makes people be nice while in public and even worst when alone. I would be prefer to have people to be just themselves forever.

Guys: Have you ever seen a president ellected by the people for the people (hehe), not to be a puppet. Do you think that one person, one mind can rule a country. This is why we have goverments. Bush seems do be idiot (I don't know really). But certainly there are people telling him what to do. Blaming the president (of any country actually), for anything wrong for that country, is like blaming an actor for a bad movie. What about the director, what about the co-actors, what about the stunds, the photographers, the make-up artists, the compsers etc.

[TheYak]

There's not much that's different except that the current President has neither the wit nor creativity necessary to invent lies and explanations that are either plausible or believable. 

The press could be lying? Amazing.  Our leaders might not actually give a cute little poop about us? Unfathomable.  Really, I find these recent revelations tiring.  People are deceived by media in its bulk. Many a person I've spoken to finds the manipulations transparent.  On a case-by-case basis, the lies are easy to see, when you compound the situation with varied types of media (Ranging from Fox Nooz to National Public Radio) distributed among a vast variety of people with a great many different backgrounds, it quite effectively keeps everybody deceived about one thing or the other. 

An argument that extremist views could be right is a bit of a paradox.  How can the extreme anti and extreme pro both be right?  If there's some truth to each argument, then the only reasonable position is the middle, or (in other words) think for your damned self instead of aligning yourself with a religious, political, racial, cultural, musical, technological pseudo-identity with a pre-stamped label only able to apply to the most superficial and 1-dimensional of beings.

For Americans against Bush, there's [making careful measurements, weighing factors, judging the balance] precisely [I think I've got it now] jack-shit you can do about it.  Why? Because our majority system currently has half on one side of the fence and half on the other.  The distinctions are largely of opinion, faith, and very black-or-white issues in the eyes of the people.  So, he's gonna be in office for the duration of his term.  After that, we get a chance to pick a new guy.  Maybe next time the selection will be better, maybe not.  My solution, in the interim, is not to concentrate on what I can do to oppose the current administration, but what I can do that's right (in my view) while under the current subset of federal and state laws.  Popular opinion says that you must be politically-minded when it comes to the top tier of politicians, but maybe 1 out of 10 people know the name of the mayor of their city.

Really, I wish the offense and defense in the Bush game would both either find something more constructive to do or (at the very least) provide a new perspective or original idea.  It's not like either side isn't staffed with liars and manipulators, it's just that you happen to agree with one side or the other.

[rharpe]

...(in other words) think for your damned self instead of aligning yourself with a religious, political, racial, cultural, musical, technological pseudo-identity with a pre-stamped label only able to apply to the most superficial and 1-dimensional of beings.

I totally disagree! Disregarding your religious, political, racial, and cultural upbringing is like saying, "Everything you know is wrong!" Why would you reverse-engineer your identity???

Metaphorically speaking: "If you erase the hard drive, how do you expect the OS to boot?" 

[TheYak]

You totally disagree with what I didn't say.  I didn't say to disregard it.  Your upbringing is a very important part of your adult life, whether it's learning from the wisdom of your elders and peers or overcoming their mistakes. 

I don't recommend disregarding everything in your past when defining yourself, that leaves you a rather uninteresting person whose opinions change on a whim.  What I did say, however, was that you shouldn't form yourself around these things, letting your identity be defined by the groups you're affiliated with, rather than being yourself with opinions you share with others.  If that's what you disagree with, then I must stand by my post and vehemently rail against those who make their decisions because they're republican, democrat, honor student, rebel, or any other affiliation one would care to make. 

A more religious-oriented example: If you vote based upon who your pastor or priest tells you to vote for, you're lost; a single molecule in a vast organism.  If you want religious (or other) guidance while you make life decisions, talk to God yourself and see what he wants (I've known several very good examples of this scenario). 

[rharpe]

If you want religious (or other) guidance while you make life decisions, talk to God yourself and see what he wants...

What good is a priest if you can't talk through him, to God? Priests study between 6 to 10 years in a seminary about the faith, morals, and God's expectations. They learn to interpret the Bible and study hard to lead souls to God. With all their knowledge and experience they have, what better person could you possibly think of that could lead you in the right direction? (I'm speaking of a catholic priest, by the way... I don't know anything about pastors, rabbis, warlocks. witches, etc.)   

[FrogMarch]

Explain how both Muslims and Christians can both have two different one true Gods.

This might help.

[rharpe]

Explain how both Muslims and Christians can both have two different one true Gods.

This might help.

This may shine some lite on the two faiths: Crusades

[Tiki]

What good is a priest if you can't talk through him, to God? Priests study between 6 to 10 years in a seminary about the faith, morals, and God's expectations. They learn to interpret the Bible and study hard to lead souls to God. With all their knowledge and experience they have, what better person could you possibly think of that could lead you in the right direction? (I'm speaking of a catholic priest, by the way... I don't know anything about pastors, rabbis, warlocks. witches, etc.)

Priests aren't supposed to do all the praying for you.  I'm not Catholic because I disagree with how much credit they give their heads of the church.  The Bible is there so you don't have to have somebody interpret everything for you.. assuming that's what you meant when you posted that.  A teacher is absolutely fine, but a "bridge" between you and God is quite different.

"[priests] lead souls to God"...

No.  God leads souls to God.

[DGMacphee]

What good is a priest if you can't talk through him, to God? Priests study between 6 to 10 years in a seminary about the faith, morals, and God's expectations. They learn to interpret the Bible and study hard to lead souls to God. With all their knowledge and experience they have, what better person could you possibly think of that could lead you in the right direction? (I'm speaking of a catholic priest, by the way... I don't know anything about pastors, rabbis, warlocks. witches, etc.)

Yeah, but Bush speaks to God on a regular basis. He might even know God inside and out, probably even more than priests do. But knowing God doesn't automatically qualitfy you as being the best person to lead you in the right direction, as Bush's polls indicate. And since Yakspit was refering to listening to priests on such things as political matters (i.e. Yakspit: "A more religious-oriented example: If you vote based upon who your pastor or priest tells you to vote for, you're lost; a single molecule in a vast organism."), I think this is a valid point to bring this thread full circle.

Bush and all the priests in the world are only human. They are infallible as much as the next man. Priests can fuck up. Any spiritual leader who is human can fuck up. Take that fat fuck Jerry Falwell, for example, who tried to convince America that liberal civil liberties groups, feminists, pagans, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters made God so angry that he sent two planes into the WTC.

He later apologised.

[Janik]

Bush and all the priests in the world are only human. They are infallible as much as the next man. Priests can fuck up. Any spiritual leader who is human can fuck up. Take that fat fuck Jerry Falwell, for example, who tried to convince America that liberal civil liberties groups, feminists, pagans, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters made God so angry that he sent two planes into the WTC.

He later apologised.

Falwell has a way with apologies - he actually restates that for which he is apologizing:

I therefore believe that that [being the ACLU, abortionists, etc.] created an environment which possibly has caused God to lift the veil of protection which has allowed no one to attack America on our soil since 1812.

Jerry: Becky is a big fatty!
Becky: Waahhh!
Jerry: I'm sorry, Becky. Really, I sincerely apologize, lard-butt.

[DGMacphee]

I like that he said God lifted the "veil of protection", like it's some kind of magic force field that diverts planes from buildings.

And remember folks, the force field is powered by the love of newborn babies and straight relationships. So get busy and start poppin' out those babies!

[rharpe]

"[priests] lead souls to God"...

No.  God leads souls to God.

In the Catholic Church priests are a necessity! Bishops are a necessity! The Pope is a necessity! Without them, we can not get to heaven. They steer us from what is wrong and evil and lead us to God... (at least they are suppose to.)

But DGMacphee, you are right. Sometimes priests fall just like the average lay man and woman. But to stereotype all priests after one or two have fallen is wrong. Just like it's wrong for us to stereotype people of different color than ourselves, or cultures, etc. I totally agree that some priests have done the opposite... and have lead many souls to hell.

But Catholic priests are still a necessity... Christ Himself instituted the sacrament of Holy Orders so that men, (priests,) would have the power to forgive sins, (Penance,) consecrate the Blessed Sacrament, (Holy Eucharist,)  administer Extreme Unction for the dying, and Marry a man and woman in Holy Matrimony. The only thing a priest is not to do, is perform Confirmation... this is done by a bishop if one is available. Only in extreme cases can a priest confirm someone. Priests also baptize as well. In extreme cases, a lay person can do this. One of the things most people do not talk about, that a priest can do under very extreme circumstances, with the bishops permission, is perform exorcisms. Even though it is not done alot... it is done.         

[DGMacphee]

But DGMacphee, you are right. Sometimes priests fall just like the average lay man and woman. But to stereotype all priests after one or two have fallen is wrong. Just like it's wrong for us to stereotype people of different color than ourselves, or cultures, etc. I totally agree that some priests have done the opposite... and have lead many souls to hell.

Whoa, whoa dude. I'm not stereotyping priests. I said...

Priests can fuck up. Any spiritual leader who is human can fuck up.

The "can" indicates all priests have the potential to fuck up, just as much as anyone. If anything, I'm stereotyping all of humanity in that everyone can fuck up.

EDIT: Except me. I'm fucking perfect! 

[TheYak]

I wasn't aware that the Catholic doctrine said that you needed a priest to get to heaven (no sarcasm here, learning actually).  The protestant doctrine (at least most) places the Pastor as an experienced man of God but with basically no capabilities beyond every Christian individual.  If need be, a person could be isolated and perform all necessary sacraments, blessings and prayers, though would start spiritually without the nourishment of regular teaching from Christian elders. 

What worries me about both protestant and Christian faiths is that a leader is leaned upon for so much and their word is taken as the word of God.  Being so used to listening, it can often take some time for people to realize when their leader is one of the low percentile of screw-ups.  Maybe God wants one person in the church to vote the opposite way in order to strengthen them, demonstrate his communication with them, or some other purpose beyond our reasoning.  Yet, with so much reliance upon a fallible man for guideance, it could be difficult to hear. 

I won't disparage a person's faith (not in seriousness anyway), so I'll stop with this: The Catholic church has had many of its ministers end up commiting what are seen as the worst sins even in the eyes of your average heathen.  The church itself is doling out slap on the wrists, publicly declaring contempt while looking the other way.  I freely admit that it's probably a very, very small percentage of the whole, but in an organization that's supposed to be the example of God to the world (just with any publicly-recognized organization) a small amount of dye colors a great deal of water.

[SSH]

Just to explain: protestant churches generally believe in the priesthood of all believers, except the Anglican church which I would say exists in a strange kind of limbo between protestant and catholic, except they don't believe in limbo 

So protestant churches believe you need a priest, its just that everyone is one, so they're not hard to find. That's the significance of the temple curtain being torn when Jesus was crucified : the division between God and man was removed and the need for seperate priests gone.

[/theology101]