damn this stairwell. my head hurts.

Goldmund · Sun 22/01/2006 17:15:46

Dear friends, I've come upon an obstacle that fries my non-visual brain.

Here's the background:

Now, the totally odd-looking thing you see on the right is supposed to be a stairwell (behind a bulk that is now open) leading to a lower level.

I've spent long hours trying to make it look right - yet it doesn't, and I don't know how to fix it.

Sure, it's too narrow, but widening it doesn't help at all.

Can you, with your amazing knowledge of vanishing points, perespectives and other things that make me feel like a drunk baby in the mist, help me in this predicament?

Ashen · Sun 22/01/2006 17:46:31

The reason it looks strange to me, is that seeing the whole of the stairway like that puts the vanishing point in a different place than the rest of the image suggests.
Try it with a more central vanishing point, so you only see one wall of the stairway, like this quick & nasty edit (red cross = approx. VP):

To me, that looks more natural - but I'm no artist so I could be totally wrong.

Tomas · Sun 22/01/2006 17:55:14

I did basically the same edit as Ashen. I found your original reference image image through Google and came up with this quick edit. Try experimenting with something like this instead.

EDIT: Note that placing the vanishing where Ashen did would be more correct than my version.

Moox · Sun 22/01/2006 18:50:04

I think the main problem is thehand rails, they come right up to the door, but they are not there to grab.

Tomas · Sun 22/01/2006 19:48:06

Quote from: Moox on Sun 22/01/2006 18:50:04
I think the main problem is thehand rails, they come right up to the door, but they are not there to grab.

I'd say it is a problem, yes. But definitely not the main problem. It has more to do with the vanishing point. Placing it like Ashen (and I) did should do the trick. As for the rail, here's a quick idea how to improve it:

Goldmund · Sun 22/01/2006 20:37:40

Thank you very much, Ashen and Tomas!

I wanted the stairwell to look longer than on your version, it's supposed to be a whole different level after all.

Do you think it's alright now?

Sean · Sun 22/01/2006 20:40:19

Why has everything moved to the right?

Send it back leftwards

Looks fine now, interesting style you've chosen to adopt.

Goldmund · Sun 22/01/2006 20:45:31

Quote from: Sean on Sun 22/01/2006 20:40:19
Why has everything moved to the right?

Send it back leftwards

Heh, that's because it's a rightmost corner of a scrolling room - I wanted to show the whole screen the player would see, so that the mysterious VP would be on the "real" middle (is that how it works?)

Evil · Sun 22/01/2006 20:47:07

Quote from: Ashen on Sun 22/01/2006 17:46:31
The reason it looks strange to me, is that seeing the whole of the stairway like that puts the vanishing point in a different place than the rest of the image suggests.

There's nothing else in the image that suggests another vanishing point. All that really needs to be done is add trim to the door and put ends onto the handrails. I would probably shorten the doorway on the lower level too.

Tomas · Sun 22/01/2006 20:52:23

Yeah, that's much better. Good job!

DonB · Sun 22/01/2006 22:38:03

Looks perfect.. and kinda scary tho

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Sun 22/01/2006 23:44:35

You probably also want to show the first stair in the very least because right now it looks like a sharp drop (or that the room is more like an elevator). The hall and the area below need visible stairs to make them feel connected. Aside from that it looks great.

DanClarke · Mon 23/01/2006 00:43:25

Also, id recommend that the door opens outwards, it would be bad architectural design for a door to open 'outwards' onto a sheer flight of stairs for obvious reasons.

Goldmund · Mon 23/01/2006 01:07:57

Thank you for your input!

ProgZmax - I don't really think that it's possible to show any of the stairs (both the top one and the bottom one) considering the perspective... or am I wrong?

DanClarke: well, this is a mechanical sliding door. It has two wings which slide to the sides, shown in-game in proper animation.

Helm · Mon 23/01/2006 02:08:12

was just lacking integration.

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Mon 23/01/2006 05:09:06

That still doesn't look quite right to me. The angle of the guardrail suggests a steep decline and yet the downstairs door is quite high. I made an edit trying to add some visible stairs but it just screwed up the guardrail angle...

Do you have a downstairs area where you live? I'd suggest taking a photo of it from a similar angle or checking google?

big brother · Mon 23/01/2006 07:34:56

The top step and the door frame are good additions. Should both doorways be the same width?

Nikolas · Mon 23/01/2006 08:23:28

I have a small problem with the height (deapth) of the down level.

Architectural-wise, a different level is 22 steps higher-lower than another level. I'm not sure that this is a "different" level we're talking about here but still it seems a little strange, to me at least, to have 5-6 steps and go to a semi-different level. Even a bassement would be very lower than what I see here.

And of course both doors should have the same weidth, except if the left one is a closet of some kind...

But I do love all your art, I have to say... And I'm gald you're striving for perfection

Tomas · Mon 23/01/2006 14:53:54

Here's the reference photo I'm quite sure Goldmund used for his image (and the one I used for my edit). No steps visible here.

EDIT: I think your background is nice as it is now though. There's really no need to change enything except for maybe adding that frame (as I illustrated in my first edit). The image works very well as a backgound as it is and presents the interactive hot-spots (the door, the card reader(?) and the basement door) in a good way.

Goldmund · Mon 23/01/2006 15:01:00

Yes, this is the photo I used!

Considering Nikolas' advice - I'll just make the lower doorway smaller to make it look further down.
As for the ProgZmax's stairs - I'll try and make only a narrow top one, maybe it will look better.
The doorway shouldn't be the same width, because, as I said before, the stairs are behind a massive mechanical sliding door. But adding the frame, as Helm did, is a good idea!

Thank you very much; I'll post tonight with the final (?) version.