Searching For Film Nour Tunes

[Adamski]

I think you'll find the aliens in the X-Files are, uh, aliens. No silly racist subtext.

[Nacho]

Sorry, but I don't get what a film noir is...

[Squinky]

Apparently, it's some pretty complex shit...

[jetxl]

Right well, I'm done... That's just too wacky for me.

I guess the black goo in Xfiles is people's fear of black people integrating into our society... And that one Xfiles about cockroaches that killed people was about mexicans and that one Xfiles about snake like fish materializing in salt water to kill people was about... Jews?

How would they go about telling countless writers that worked on that show that the secret symbolism behind the show is that americans are afraid of losing culture and having them all go "Good idea!"

Well, there was an episode where a few jews gassed in WW2, turned out to be aliens. And that alien shape shifter who looks black in order not to be noticed.

I don't understand your comment. X-files is packed with paranoia and anxiety. I'm not the first to say so, yet you claim this is "wacky?"

[passer-by]

film noir

B, She sees aliens in the X-files as symbolism for the (american) fear of losing cuture to ethnic minorities, just like me.

Apart from the "american" bit, which I think should include more countries, I agree with series/films containing symbolisms for this fear. Just take a crime/spy/war series or films Ã, from the 60s the 70's the 80s and so on and make a note of who the villains are...and how they change accordingly to foreign affairs.

[MrColossal]

"I don't understand your comment. X-files is packed with paranoia and anxiety. I'm not the first to say so, yet you claim this is "wacky?" "

So is the Xmen comic and movies, Men in Black, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, do these fit in the same slot as noir?

The Pianist, Schindler's List, Life is Beautiful... All of these are filled with paranoia and anxiety.

Or is it possible that sometimes a theme can be taken from real life and applied to another style of story telling without condoning the theme?

[Nacho]

We must be very carefull when trying to see symbologies in the work of some directors/producers/writers...

Spoiler about the "Reservoir Dogs" film.

Spoiler

Smart Ass Interviewer: We can see a scene in the film where an orange ballon enters in take when one of the cars leaves the scene... Was that an attempt to psycosomatizate the spectator and revealing that the traitor of the storyline is Mr. Orange?

Quentin Tarantino: Man, no! There was a kid, there, with a ballon. He released the ballon and it entered flying in the take. We were short of money, so we couldn't repeat the scene."

[close]

And I am sure that there are a plenty of examples like that, so...

[jetxl]

Again, Eric, I don't understand your comment. I feel as you want me to look at your left hand so you can punch me out with a right hook. Should I duck?

You quote me, yet you don't awnser me. Again, am I the first to tell you that the X-Files is packed with paranoia and anxiety that is characteristic to American culture? Do you find this untrue, and why?


Yes, it is possible that sometimes a theme can be taken from real life and applied to another style of story telling without condoning the theme. But not in this case.

[Adamski]

I think the point is you're talking complete garbage, jet.

[MrColossal]

That is the first I heard of xfiles being "packed with paranoia and anxiety that is characteristic to American culture" as you say.

Anyone else reading this, have they heard what Jet is talking about before?

In my opinion it's mostly about what is real and what is truth and no matter how many levels of the onion you peel, there are always more.

Men in Black is more about people being afraid of aliens so they take on human form and try to be "normal humans".

Xmen is even crazier when it comes to parelleling fear of the unknown throughout the earth's history. Mutants being mass arrested and put in camps, forced labor, mass genocide...

Xfiles is a sci-fi show that kind of stumbles around and doesn't get much done. If it was trying to convey these themes you're impressing on it it did it so poorly that it's hard to even see them.

I think you should watch Star Trek if you want a tv show that tried to deal with these themes. They had a black lady on that show!

"Yes, it is possible that sometimes a theme can be taken from real life and applied to another style of story telling without condoning the theme. But not in this case. "

Why? Explain, please.

"Well, there was an episode where a few jews gassed in WW2, turned out to be aliens. And that alien shape shifter who looks black in order not to be noticed."

Those are 2 episodes off the top of my my head that I could think of also... The show was on for how many years? How many writers did they go through? How many episodes were there? In my opinion this is just a case of a writer taking a theme or bit of history and writing it into their story.

[Becky]

X-files is packed with paranoia and anxiety. I'm not the first to say so, yet you claim this is "wacky?"

It was paranoia and anxiety about your actual alien.

[ildu]

Who to believe. An anonymous internet scripting kiddy who hounds me, or an graduate in English and author of several books and essays...

How about thinking for yourself? If you really think that film noir has obtrusive racist connotations, please give examples. Don't believe some high and mighty douchebag just because he/she has a degree. I didn't believe Pat Robertson when he said that God sent a tornado into New Orleans because it was full of sin or that Ariel Sharon got a stroke because he divided sacred land. Should I believe him just because he has a high social status, owns a tv network and is a preacher?

If this Christy Burns makes this kind of conclusion about film noir, is it not possible to make the exact same conclusions about regular movies? Why were there so many ethnic people on the airplane in Con Air? Why are Russians and Germans always portrayed in a bad light? Why does the black dude always die first? Why doesn't the black dude ever marry the white girl?

Joel Cairo in Maltese Falcon being foreign has nothing to do with racism. As for gayness, there was no hint of such a thing in the whole movie. Just because someone acted in the 40's in a way that might be marginally identified as gay by americans in the modern world doesn't mean he was. If this was any proof, you might as well say Lauren Bacall played a tranny in each of her movies (she was a masculine, tough type).

And anyways, do you know who the most wholesome and kind character in the history of film noir was? It was Sam, the piano player from Casablanca. He was black, too.

[LimpingFish]

Oh sweet Jesus. Now Film Noir is evil?!?

Don't people have anything better to do than pinching off yet more, steaming "symbolism" turds?

I couldn't give a raw rats ass...

Try finding symbolism in that!

[Pet Terry]

Why does the black dude always die first?

Off-topic, but someone explain me, why!

[jetxl]

Okay give me a moment. So many questions, so many awnsers.

MiB is about turning an urban myth connected with paranoia into something positive in the Spielburgian way. Just like ET and CEot3K, aliens are your friends (thinks Spielberg).

Xmen is mostly about punching bad guys. But it has a self-reflection of mankind thing too, like the mutant work camps to solve problems.

X-files; the fact that nothing changes is the first reason of why I don't like it anymore. The second is the fear for culture theme.

Star Trek: Anti Communism undertone.

"Yes, it is possible that sometimes a theme can be taken from real life and applied to another style of story telling without condoning the theme. But not in this case. "
Because Carter filmed the American Paranoia Culture. Things are scarier when fantastic things become real.
Carter based the X-files on real paranoia claims to turn the X-files into a succes.

I think the point is you're talking complete garbage, jet.

Not in this case. Great arguments, though. I can see you put a lot of effort in your one-liner.

Farl: Somethimes they DO put symbolism into series/films. Like the white clothes the girl wears in Ring symbolises that she is dead.

X-files is packed with paranoia and anxiety. I'm not the first to say so, yet you claim this is "wacky?"

It was paranoia and anxiety about your actual alien.

ET, Mr Spock and the Tribble are aliens. Are you scared of them?

LimpingFish, in that case, don't yopu have anything better to do?

[Becky]

ET, Mr Spock and the Tribble are aliens. Are you scared of them?

Guess what?  Things are portrayed differently in different films.  That is the marvel of fiction.

My point still stands, the X-Files is about the paranoia and fear and the challenges of stretching your belief boundaries to accept the unknown, unknowable, and inexplicable.  If they use the medium of science fiction and aliens, then they're free to portray fictional creatures in any way they like.  It doesn't automatically become a alien-to-ethnic minority symbol because they portray something creepy and spooky and alien to be threat and something to be scared of.

[Snarky]

Who to believe. An anonymous internet scripting kiddy who hounds me, or an graduate in English and author of several books and essays...

How about thinking for yourself?

Oh man! I was going to say that! Ã, 

This Burns character doesn't even appear to be a very prominent critic or expert, so her status as an authority is questionable. And in any case she's merely quoting Julian Murphet. If you'd look up his article, you'd see that he's making a much weaker claim. I'm afraid if you want to argue your point, you'll have to do so yourself.

And check your paranoia: I am not "hounding" you. In fact, I had to look up our posting histories to even understand what you were talking about.

[In The Maltese Falcon, Joel Cairo is identified as potentially gay and definetely foreign, both in his dress and manner.]

In The Maltese Falcon, Sam Spade is not corrupted by coming in contact with Joel Cairo. If there are homophobic overtones to Peter Lorre's character, and I think that's a bit of a stretch, they're just an incidental bit of prejudice from that era caught on film, just as it might be in any other film from the time. Film noir does not have an agenda of oppressing, or repressing, minorities.

As evidence, it's weak, weak, weak.

As for science fiction and alien invasion stories, critics have pointed out a relationship to fear of all kinds of social upheaval since forever. Just today there was an article on Salon about how this seaon's sci-fi shows (Surface, Threshold, Invasion) can be seen as metaphors for interracial marriage.

[passer-by]

We stick to secondary characters and forget about the leading ones that are mainly white, rich and all the other correct things...

Eddie Mars, Brigid O'Shaunnesy, Archers' wife, the younger Sternwood, Norma Desmond...Do they belong in minorities? It;s tehm who rot the heroes' lives, not the various Cairos.

[Adamski]

Not in this case. Great arguments, though. I can see you put a lot of effort in your one-liner.

There is no argument here, you're talking out of your anus. It requires no more effort than that.

[jetxl]

Who to believe. An anonymous internet scripting kiddy who hounds me, or an graduate in English and author of several books and essays...

How about thinking for yourself? If you really think that film noir has obtrusive racist connotations, please give examples. Don't believe some high and mighty douchebag just because he/she has a degree. I didn't believe Pat Robertson when he said that God sent a tornado into New Orleans because it was full of sin or that Ariel Sharon got a stroke because he divided sacred land. Should I believe him just because he has a high social status, owns a tv network and is a preacher?

I came to the conclusion first, then I read the article.
I already gave some examples, but here are some more.
In Bladerunner, The character played by Ford asks someone else to translate what his partner is saying, although he could understand him. He clearly shows that he doesn't like foreigners.
The second episode of the X-Files shows black triangular ufo's above an airbase (the aurora project). The airplanes are built from alien technoligy. The test pilotes who fly the airplanes change in personality. It you come in contact with aliens (different cultures) you will change.

If this Christy Burns makes this kind of conclusion about film noir, is it not possible to make the exact same conclusions about regular movies? Why were there so many ethnic people on the airplane in Con Air? Why are Russians and Germans always portrayed in a bad light? Why does the black dude always die first? Why doesn't the black dude ever marry the white girl?

The bad guys live in a bad world. If you want to let people spot the bad guy before the main character does, you got to trow in some hints. I live in a white suburban area, I can't spot any crime here. There is crime in the city. You can spot a hooker, a drugdealer or a group of hooligans by looking at people. It doesn't mean they are, but you still avoid them. We don't make up the rules. We just follow them.

Joel Cairo in Maltese Falcon being foreign has nothing to do with racism. As for gayness, there was no hint of such a thing in the whole movie. Just because someone acted in the 40's in a way that might be marginally identified as gay by americans in the modern world doesn't mean he was. If this was any proof, you might as well say Lauren Bacall played a tranny in each of her movies (she was a masculine, tough type).

Maltese Falcon, the book.

And anyways, do you know who the most wholesome and kind character in the history of film noir was? It was Sam, the piano player from Casablanca. He was black, too.

Happy donkey, one dimentional and only used to show that Bogart was not suburbian. Casablanca also used the term "the usual suspects," which means "pick up all the blacks". (The Marx Brothers are Jewish, and in the film A Night In Casablanca, Harpo is arrested.

Not in this case. Great arguments, though. I can see you put a lot of effort in your one-liner.

There is no argument here, you're talking out of your anus. It requires no more effort than that.

Talking like a real moderator there, keep it up.
Seriously, I'm studying American Studies on the University. Three teachers, one is a professor, one is a doctor and on is a assistand professor, have discussed this culture issue. So if you say I'm lying, which means my teachers are lying, it proves that you don't know shit from a sunday.