Transformers, robots in disguise.

[Helm]

Gilliam's last few films "Brothers Grimm" and "Tideland" were extremely bad.

[MrColossal]

That and transformers isn't like some awesome story or highly revered bit of american entertainment. It's a terrible cartoon that spawned terrible comics and now lately even more terrible card collecting styled cartoons. If the movie is terrible than he's stayed quite true to the brand.

I'm trying my best not to flame you for such a biased and ill-informed remark. Just because you don't like transformers doesn't mean that it's a bad series. Next time, say why you don't like the series.

What is there to flame? Just about every cartoon from the 80's and early 90's is crap made to sell toys. Thundercats is a hideous cartoon, Silverhawks is even worse and Transformers is no better.

Are the toys awesome? Yes, Transformers toys are some of the best toys from my childhood. In my opinion that is where people's love of Transformers comes from. They remember the toys because there's not much to remember about them, same with the cartoon. What awesome storylines and intense action did the cartoon series have? Does anyone remember? Sure we can remember the movie but what about the series.

I think the only one I can remember is some decepticon made holograms of energon and a hologram of a base to trick the autobots into attacking, then when they attacked the hologram went away and decepticons were everywhere and then they all shot at each other and ran away. I'm guessing the autobots eventually tricked the decepticons to wrap up the story.

It doesn't matter anyway, every episode of the Transformers cartoon was made to sell toys. The Transformers series is not some holy artistic vision, it's an ad campaign. How can Michael Bay ruin an ad campaign? By making a good movie.

[Ali]

Gilliam's last few films "Brothers Grimm" and "Tideland" were extremely bad.

Tideland hasn't been released in Britain (as far as I know) but Brother's Grimm was poor. The problem was the coupling of Gilliam's rambling genius with a straightforward Hollywood fable. Sadly Robert Zemekis or Christopher Columbus could have told that story better.

Gilliam has the capacity to tell a different kind of story brilliantly. And, true to his brilliance, sometimes he sparkles and sometimes he can be... dull.

Ahem.. so, Transformers...

[Snarky]

What is there to flame? Just about every cartoon from the 80's and early 90's is crap made to sell toys. Thundercats is a hideous cartoon, Silverhawks is even worse and Transformers is no better.

Are the toys awesome? Yes, Transformers toys are some of the best toys from my childhood. In my opinion that is where people's love of Transformers comes from. They remember the toys because there's not much to remember about them, same with the cartoon. What awesome storylines and intense action did the cartoon series have? Does anyone remember? Sure we can remember the movie but what about the series.

I think the only one I can remember is some decepticon made holograms of energon and a hologram of a base to trick the autobots into attacking, then when they attacked the hologram went away and decepticons were everywhere and then they all shot at each other and ran away. I'm guessing the autobots eventually tricked the decepticons to wrap up the story.

It doesn't matter anyway, every episode of the Transformers cartoon was made to sell toys. The Transformers series is not some holy artistic vision, it's an ad campaign. How can Michael Bay ruin an ad campaign? By making a good movie.

I don't think that's entirely fair. Sure, Transformers owes its existence to the desire to sell toys, but the story, the characters and the universe were still created by a number of different artists who contributed their own talent and creativity to the franchise. Some of them are still quite proud of the work they did. The movie is generally well regarded, even today. Is it not plausible to think that one reason people are so nostalgic for the Transformers is that it was quite good?

I have to admit, I never watched the cartoons, but I read the comics, and I still remember quite a lot of the storylines. That big sentient planet that was out to get all the Transformers, whether Autobots or Decepticons. The Power Matrix. The factional struggles between the captains of the Decepticon. Bumblebee's insecurity and hero-worship of the more powerful bots. Those annoying humans. Optimus's struggle under the weight of leadership.

I don't know about the dialogue or the storytelling technique (as a kid I don't think I cared much about those things), but the basic concept was very strong, and the plotlines still seem quite decent to me. I won't argue that it was a work of genius or anything, but as far as corporate franchises go (and that, remember, includes pretty much every cartoon and comic book title ever) it was competently executed.

But the Transformers deserve respect not just for the work that the movie is based on, but for the fond memories millions of now grown-up kids have of it, even if those memories are tinted by nostalgia. When they make a Transformers film, it ought to be as great as we remember the Transformers. And so far, it's not looking too good...

[Helm]

Is it not plausible to think that one reason people are so nostalgic for the Transformers is that it was quite good?

Plausible? Yes. Probable? Not so much.

[TheYak]

That and transformers isn't like some awesome story or highly revered bit of american entertainment. It's a terrible cartoon that spawned terrible comics and now lately even more terrible card collecting styled cartoons. If the movie is terrible than he's stayed quite true to the brand.

I'm trying my best not to flame you for such a biased and ill-informed remark. Just because you don't like transformers doesn't mean that it's a bad series. Next time, say why you don't like the series.

What awesome storylines and intense action did the cartoon series have? Does anyone remember? Sure we can remember the movie but what about the series.

Ha! Gotcha! I recall an episode where Soundwave (The menacing tape-recorder/robot) is using subliminal sounds to turn disco-happy civilians into zombie slaves.  That's quality for ya.
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If you want the crappiest of it, watch some of the original Japanese cartoons.  The Transformers had several stages: Vehicle, Human, Human in armor, Giant Robot (Well, except the bad guys, they turned into monsters instead of people). 

[DGMacphee]