AGS games being sold! (more or less...)

[m0ds]

How abooouut.... no. If the developers feel they are being violated, let them get in touch. If they have no luck maybe then we should take steps to stop this, but even then - you're part of the wrong community if hacking is your answer.

[vict0r]

Well, I did understand that hacking something is bad and wrong etc. before I posted my post.. But I understood it like people had tried to get their games off of the site, but without luck. And if this was the issue, and they really wanted the game off, someone could hack it for them

you're part of the wrong community if hacking is your answer.

I really don't see why you conclude with this...

[auriond]

Just out of curiosity - what exactly can we do here? The site's not claiming to sell the games, but to charge for their "service" - by which we are supposed to understand that they're charging visitors in order to pay for their hosting and bandwidth. So what do we have to stand on when we want to "take steps"?

[DeviantGent]

If it were my game, I'd certainly send them a fake cease and desist from my made-up lawyerÃ, 

I thought I was your lawyer, Flibble... 

*gears up for some spicy hot legal action*

[Darth Mandarb]

Does anybody know of a way to find out where a game is being downloaded from?  I'm not going to pay to find out ...

I'm curious to know if they're linking to my server (stealing my bandwidth) should anybody actually download my game from their site.  I mean ... if they're charging the money for the "service" and then using MY bandwidth for the download I'm not too happy about that.

edit - either way ... I changed the file name on my server and edited the game's entry on the AGS games page just in case.  If any of you are worried about this ... I'd suggest doing the same thing!

edit2 - Thanks Ishmael!  I'm checking that right now!

[Ishmael]

If they'd be downlaoding off your site and you have a decent host who provides a control panel of sorts (be decent hosts I mean real hosting companies that provide said service) you can see what's been downloaded and how much, and I think you can somehow get a referrer info thing off it. I'm not sure on that, but should be possible.

[Akatosh]

There is a simple way to find out: Remove/Rename the file and get somebody who was dumb enough to buy access on that server to try and download it. 404 Error = They steal your bandwith.

Or, if you *own* your hosting server, you could go checking the logs and see if that site's IP accesses you.

Oh, and I didn't seriously want you to hack the server... but as I'm currently working on a hacking game, that was the first thing which came to my mind 

/EDIT: I've looked up the site's IP. It's 69.61.55.26.

[GarageGothic]

Or better, replace the file with a fake one containing a text file, stating that whoever paid to download this file is being ripped off, and ask them to contact you and tell you where they found the link if not on your own site.

[Squinky]

I posted about this site maybe a year or so ago. It still gives me a bad vibe though...

[Akatosh]

Somebody should try the text file thing. If you see your game appearing there, replace the original download file with the text file and upload your game under another name. Insert, uh, something like an e-mail address freshly registered for that purpose in the file and see if any mails come rushing in.

/EDIT: Oh, and by the way, look at the 'parent site' www.mosw.com. Those two are associated, and I think if we just threatened to come with lawyers... with services like that...

[m0ds]

I really don't see why you conclude with this...

Meaning that hacking is not the solution, and this is not the kind of forum to suggest it in, either.

[Darth Mandarb]

Or better, replace the file with a fake one containing a text file, stating that whoever paid to download this file is being ripped off, and ask them to contact you and tell you where they found the link if not on your own site.

Fantastic idea!  I'm doing that right now!

I checked the logs ... the problem is that particular file has been downloaded over 10,000 times and I don't really want to sort through it all!  However ... I will know when I upload the new file and see if it gets any new downloads from this point on.

[EagerMind]

I checked the logs ... the problem is that particular file has been downloaded over 10,000 times and I don't really want to sort through it all!

Can't you just paste it into a text file and do a search for that specific IP address?

In any case, I suspect changing the url to your file is only a temporary fix. If this site figured out how to link to it in the first place, who's to say they won't just update their link after you change it? Unless you're prepared to constantly change the URL to your file, but then that would break a lot of legitimate links to your file.

[Akatosh]

...or you just change the file once and block the IP of that site out. Unless they're really eager to get your game, that should stop them (assuming they're a bit lazy, that is).

[MillsJROSS]

Hopefully the advantages to creating a text file, versus just moving it, is that those downloading would be informed that this game shouldn't be downloaded from that website. Otherwise, they're more likely to point it out to the webmasters of the other site.

I really don't have a problem if they're actually hosting the file themselves. But apparently this isn't the case. They're also assuming that because a game author has made his game freeware, that it means that they can distribute it. I think there is a way to make it known that you should be the only one who may disctribute said game. Just because something is freeware, doesn't mean it's a free-for-all, which is apparently their view.

I don't agree with charging for services. Their website is pretty bare, and they probably didn't spend any money designing it, or at least didn't hire anyone outside. I am not completely in the know of how much cost it is to run a website...but after initial fees, I don't think something as bland as this, is costing them very much, and it's very possible that they are making money off of the website.

I'm not sure of the legalities of using the money for any other purpose than the website. If I were really out to see them shut down, I'd try to notify Vivendi (who owns all the Sierra copyrights, I believe), and point them in that direction, as there appears to be a few Sierra games there. Although, I think the most they would do, is make sure their games weren't being downloaded.

Edit - it also appears that they have Kings Quest there for download. As Vivendi has released Sierra Collections for sale again, this is completely against copyright laws.

-MillsJROSS

[Mr Flibble]

I thought I was your lawyer, Flibble... 

*gears up for some spicy hot legal action*

The man raises a good point. If we DO want to do anything, DC is actually a lawyer.

[MillsJROSS]

Just found Vivendi's e-mail address for piracy...I know I'll send an e-mail.

piracy@vugames.com

[EagerMind]

Hopefully the advantages to creating a text file, versus just moving it, is that those downloading would be informed that this game shouldn't be downloaded from that website. Otherwise, they're more likely to point it out to the webmasters of the other site.

Except that if the site checks their links, this is still just a temporary solution until the site updates their links. It seems to me the best way to defeat something like this is what Underdogs does, where you have to type in the code from an image to begin the download. I guess blocking the IP address like Akatosh said will also work (in this specific case).

They're also assuming that because a game author has made his game freeware, that it means that they can distribute it. I think there is a way to make it known that you should be the only one who may disctribute said game. Just because something is freeware, doesn't mean it's a free-for-all, which is apparently their view.

There's nothing stopping anyone from including a license with their product controlling how it's distributed. Look at Open Source and the GPL. I've seen a number of free licenses that allow for redistribution as long as it's distributed free of charge and in it's entirety. Of course that doesn't mean people won't violate your license, but it may give you legal standing to start litigation against them. But if it's a free game we're talking about, most people aren't willing to spend money on lawyers.

But this site would probably still get around a license like this. They're supposedly not charging for the game, but for the bandwidth and file hosting. Now if they're not actually hosting these files and using their own bandwidth, then we're talking more along the lines of fraud than copyright violation.

Anyway, it doesn't look like people are so much upset that they're distributing these games, but that they're charging for a service which they may not actually be providing.

I don't agree with charging for services.

If they are actually providing these services, I don't see why they can't charge whatever they want to provide them. Anyone that takes the time to shop around a bit will realize that they can get these games elsewhere for free. Heck, this is true even if this is a fraudulent site.

Personally, I'm less concerned about the poor dupe that would pay for the download than I am about whether these guys are using other people's bandwidth and file hosting to perpetrate a fraud.

[CodeJunkie]

Discussion on HoTU forums about stopping FGD leeching http://www.the-underdogs.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46858&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Very short snippet about FGD spamming Wikipedia
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Spam_blacklist#free-game-downloads.mosw.com_and_accomplices

I couldn't actually find much else.  I hate the fact that these people are raking money in partly from amateur developer's freeware titles.  Some people release things as freeware because they don't want to charge money, but in fact they're inadvertently taking money from the public and dropping it straight into fraudulent pockets.

[MillsJROSS]

Text files: I'm not saying text files are a permanent solution, I'm saying that they're better than just an empty link. If I can't download a game, I will complain, and they'll probably find the changed link. But if I find a read-me that perhaps tells whoever downloads the file is being taken, I'll be less prone to actually complaining about the file. I'm not arguing this is a perfect solution, if they want to leech off you, they'll do it.

Freeware liscence: Perhaps, I should be more clear. I know it's possible to liscence your games so that you are the sole distributor of the game, regardless of the fact that it's freeware. I think they can get around charging, because they're not charging for your game, but the service they provide. So if an author liscences his game so that he/she is the only distributor, than regardless of the service fee, they are definitely in direct conflict with your freeware liscence. As far as lawyers are concerned, unless they don't pull your game after you notify them, then you can get lawyers involved. Although, using lawyers seems daunting, I, personally, wouldn't be afraid to get a lawyer if I was in that situation.

As far as not agreeing for service costs, let me say, it's a joint statement. I don't agree with service costs if they are actually leeching. I don't agree with service costs, if they're making money and using it, for other things than providing the webspace. If the money is purely going to the website, I have no problems with it.

-MillsJROSS