Need quick crits on character sprite

[chapter11studios]

For those of you who are familiar with my game Rise of the Hidden Sun, what do you think of this potential look for Jake? I'm looking for specific things you like or dislike about how he looks, particularly compared to the current sprites I'm using (see the screenshots at http://www.rattlesnakejake.com). Thanks!

[Sam.]

This character look more like a farmer than a cowboy, id lose the beard and replace it with stubble, and maybe give him a neckercheif(sp) or something.

[cobra79]

Amazing graphics.
I like his new beard, but I miss his gun and would prefer his old hat. The new color of his trousers looks better.

[Evil]

I like the overall shape of him better, but the clothing/features could use some help. I agree he looks more farmer than cowboy, and more 1970's than farmer at that. Hat is too fedora-y. And the beard should be changed. Stubble would look better. But I think a change of his shirt might help. I sketched something up quick.

[Seleceus]

Been following the production of this for quite a while now, and it seems that Jake's undergone a couple remakes.  Unfortunately, I like this one the least.  He doesn't seem fit into the background at all, as much as look pasted on.  Suppose I should be more specific...

Likes:

- I too like the beard, but it could be a bit smaller.  It over takes his face and it's far too yellow.
- The new body shape is better.  It's not hero-ish, but it's not as scrawny as the old one.
- Really like the narrower eyes.  He doesn't look as clueless.

Dislikes:

- Outlines, and high saturation, separate him from his surroundings.  A bit too Hanna Barbera for me.  It lacks the depth that the rest of the art shows.    Maybe use shading to infer the pockets, cuffs, collar, etc... or at least make the outlines closer to their neighboring colors.
- Hat is too small, and I miss the hatband (maybe the same color as the gun belt).  At first glance it looks like a ball cap.

Misc Suggestions:

- Gun belt needs cartridge loops (whether or not he has ammo is another thing), and it hangs the wrong direction in this particular frame.  The pistol will weight it down on his left side more.
- Spurs?

Just my 'take it for what it's worth'.  Looking forward  to more from you.

[Darth Mandarb]

** wipes drool from chin **

First let me give some praise:

I love, love, LOVE the mixture of the simple characters with the detailed backgrounds.  It's a style I've always loved (and used, though not on this level of pretty-ness!)

Having said that ...

I don't like this version of Jake.

The one you have in the GiP thread is FAR more appealing to me:


This new version, while looking cool in the setting, lacks that ... oomph! that the other version has!

I dunno ... just screams more character to me.  More interesting.  More involving.  More dynamic.

Just my $0.02

Background is tops man!  Seriously good stuff.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Here's a quick face edit on the version you posted.

1.  Made the colors less saturated.

2.  Lowered eye level to approximately the center of the head.

3.  Reshaded and added some highlights.

4.  Adjusted hat.





The main issue I see is the highly saturated colors and the face proportions.  Even in a cartoony style human eyes should be at or near the center of the head.  Also, I have to admit that the art style jars quite a bit from the wonderful backgrounds.  Unlike Darth I'm not a fan of mismatching styles, though, but I definitely think the sprite would benefit from greater detail.

[Ali]

I think this Jake's build fits very well with the background. I feel the Jake in Darth's post is a little too looney tunes for what is relatively realistic (and gorgeous) background style. This guy also has a better weight and a sense of movement that is lacking from the GiP Jake.

That said, I think colour is a problem, particularly the beard. ProgZmax's edit looks amazing, but I doubt if that style would be manageable in terms of animation. I don't dislike the beard, but the colour is far too strong.

I think you cold do a lot with a carefully mismatched style, but I think this sprite has gone a little too far. I'd stick with the relatively flat shades, but choose hues that will tie him into the environment.

[Andail]

Having bright, saturated, non-shaded sprites on detailed, shaded, handpainted-esque backgrounds is a very established tradition, not only in games but in cartoons in general. It's generally considered a nice stylistic touch.
I think it works good and could add a refreshing element of contrast. In cases of clashing light conditions, one can always lower the lighting of a region.

Progz' edit is beautiful, but may prove too cumbersome to implement on a complete set of animations. It could also render the general impression a bit too realistic; a bit dull or hefty, so to speak.

[chapter11studios]

Thanks for your feedback, everyone. Opinions are duly noted and I'm on to the next, hopefully final, iteration -- which, of course, I'll post here for your abuse... I mean, opinions. 

Cheers,
Josh

[loominous]

I think the main clash here isn't the toonshading versus the painting like background, but an unrealistically coloured/treated character versus a realistic looking background.

The character has local colours, as in, those are the actual colours of his clothes, skin etc, when seen in a white room with white lights. But as soon as he's taken out of this environment, those colours aren't valid anymore, and need to be adjusted to the new surrounding. Same goes for the brightness of the colours.

If you look at disney movies for instance, you'll note that while the characters often have the same clothes throughout the movie, the actual colours are rarely the same from scene to scene, since they're adjusted to correspond to the surrounding.

While it's not practical (or often desireable) to paint characters as you would the background, the same colour rules for a consistent background can be (and are in most high quality animated movies) still applied to character colouring.

Here's a quick example of a more integrated character:



In practise:

I) Make sure that the brightness matches the background
II) Make sure that the saturation matches the background
III) Make sure that there's some kind of shadow, even when it makes little sense (as in this case), since it places the subject on the ground. Safest is just to place them under the feet, visible when the feet are just above the ground.
IV) Make sure that the colours of the surrounding affects the colours. Easiest way to do this is to sample an average colour of the surrounding, create a layer filled with this colour, and set the blending mode to 'Color' (the blending mode is the small textbox in the photoshop layer menu that normally says 'Normal') and then adjust the opacity to increase or decrease the effect (the blending mode will make the layer content only affect the colour of the layers below, not the values).

There are some ways to affect these things through the AGS engine (so you wouldn't have to have multiple sprite versions), but I'm not very familiar with them. You should however be able to achieve a similar look.

I share the views of most in this thread about the look of the actual sprite, but the background looks great!

[chapter11studios]

I think the main clash here isn't the toonshading versus the painting like background, but an unrealistically coloured/treated character versus a realistic looking background.

Excellent critique, loominous. Thanks! I should have mentioned this was a quick animation/character test and not the final sprite, but your suggestions for colors/shading are great on their own.

Now for something completely different: Jake, iteration 19 1/2, looking very similar to an earlier version (only in Flash this time!) 

[Igor]

Looking good!
The only problem i see are his legs and posture- too short and they look as he's just about to fall.
Here's a quick sloppy edit:

[markbilly]

Igor has the right idea. But I don't like the style of this new one. I think the sprite at the top of the page is great. Just darken the colours a bit as loominous says, and add the brown pads to the shirt shoulders like in evil's edit. And then maybe add more of a gun holster to him.

And I'd like to compliment you on amazing looking backgrounds! I wish I could draw like that!

[Khris]

The latest version is by far the best. He looks exactly like I'd expect/want Jake to look.
Additionally, Igor's edit really hits the nail on the head.

Loominous did a great job of making the first, bright version fit the background and I have to admit I wouldn't have thought that is even possible with those extremely clashing styles.

Combine the lighting suggestion (which can easily be implemented using Character.Tint) with the latest sprite and you're done.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I definitely like the more heroic pose and facial expression of the original/flash version, I just think you need to stay away from antialiasing the edges because it will only cause you trouble in the future.

[chapter11studios]

I definitely like the more heroic pose and facial expression of the original/flash version, I just think you need to stay away from antialiasing the edges because it will only cause you trouble in the future.

Pardon my ignorance, but what trouble, exactly?

[Khris]

Without either cleaning the edges or using alpha channel pngs and 32bit, the current sprite will look like this in-game:

[Sam.]

With the heroic pose, id suggest you tighten up the paunch he seems to have developed!

Depending on what you're going for, i prefer the latest one sytle-wise, if you want a cool/edgy hero.

[vict0r]

He looks kinda like Chuck Norris now, but I prefer the latest one. I love your background style as well!
Exremely nice and detailed.