Am I a weird asocial ?

[Khris]

Suppose someone wants to try alcohol but hesitates because they don't like the taste. Mixing it is the obvious solution in this case.
(And red wine is one of the few alcoholic beverages I don't like. I find it disgusting actually. So if it was indeed red wine, you might consider to try something else. Like a Cuba Libre. Or a Caipirinha. Great stuff.)

I reject getting shot in the face without having tried it. Thus, I'm completely inconsequent and you can disregard everything I've said. No, wait...

[MrColossal]

the anal sex bit was a joke... get a sense of humor

Maybe I missed the bit where Oliwerko said he was looking to try drinking but I get from his writing that he's not interested:

"About the drinking - maybe it is not a bad idea to start with really small amounts. Some beer or so may not be so bad idea. Ill reconsider. But that is not my point. Because it is the solution that I am not searching for."

Not the solution he's searching for.

Also, I said I'm not interested in drinking alcohol or "experiencing" even mild drunkenness yet you suggest I try another drink. Is there a disconnect I'm not seeing here?

[Domino]

I was joking about your comment. I thought it was quite funny.

edit: I know people who don't drink and i would never pressure them to drink even if i drink beer myself. I respect their wishes. It would be like people who do drugs, there is nothing they could do to make me start down that road.

[MrColossal]

I ment the last line of KhrisMUC's post

[Khris]

So you didn't want the anal sex bit to also sound like a rebuttal? Not even a tiny bit? Alright.

Well, I thought maybe the bad taste of wine sort of confirmed your dislike. That's why I recommended something else, should you ever get curious (again).

This is page four of the thread, do I still have to address exactly the OP's statements?
I'm aware of this threads topic, and I try to stick to it. And I believe I still do.

Domino:
that's the whole point I'm trying to get across: Alcohol isn't like heroin.
And I didn't say I'd keep following people trying to persuade them, waving bottles and forcing shots into their mouths. Which of course I don't.

If you aren't curious and don't want to try, fine. But then don't complain about losing social acceptance.
You don't lose social acceptance if you refuse to play russian roulette or aren't curious about how poo tastes. Because people understand it and feel the same. Refuse to try alcohol and they will deem you weird. And rightfully so, IMO.
(And don't ask me like "do you do everything other people do?". Because I will deem you weird then.)

And just because I'm a stubborn sonofabitch:
I know many people who were like "I don't need a cellphone", or "I don't need fast internet, I just check my emails once a week", or "I don't need a car, there's public transport in my city".
Those people usually have two things in common: there's no way to convince them to try, and they feel stupid for not doing it earlier after they tried themselves.

[Domino]

I wasn't aiming my post at you, i was just saying in general about myself.

I really didn't even read most of the thread until the butt play comment. 

[MrColossal]

Anal sex: no, it was a joke, sorry!

"This is page four of the thread, do I still have to address exactly the OP's statements?"

On page three you were still talking to the OP and this is what I'm trying to have a conversation about.

"So regarding Oliwerko's situation: why not mix the stuff, water it down. I loved Vodka Orange when I was 18/19. It's up to you whether there's going to be more vodka or more orange juice in the glass.
If people are seriously going to mock you or even exclude you just because you don't gulp down liters of 40% pure, you can still leave."

What I was trying to ask about was:

"I readily, immediately accept the refusal to drink alcohol from anyone. If the person tried it. Because despite what they might think, they don't have any idea of how it feels to be drunk."

What about if one is not interested in knowing what it's like to be drunk?

If my anal sex immediately put you on the defensive, I'm sorry. Reread my post again and don't read the bit about butt sex and you can see that I'm just trying to have a conversation. Also, you suggest that he should drink diluted vodka and I ask, to what end does that serve? Just to "get it over with" and get drunk stealthily?

[lo_res_man]

I consider my self to be a social drinker though I got drunk once just to see how I would react. I told the stupidest jokes and got rather barstool philosophical. However after four bottles of guinesse I started to feel a tad queesy, so four is at present about my limit. Did the water trick, but still woke up in the morning with a small hangover. Not really fun. Don't let us force you into doing anything you don't want. Been mildly tipsy is fun, but not necessary FOR fun. the hangover isn't and if your not dancing on the bar top doing the Full Monty, that doesn't mean you a "weird asocial"

[Khris]

I've added a smiley to my previous post, especially for you

With butt sex finally out of the way:
I didn't want to sound defensive, I'm merely throwing out arguments for my stance.

Oliwerko wrote about a party where some girl gave him the advice to swallow it quickly.
It sounded like the people considered drinking as some kind of extreme sport, not means to boost the fun. So I told him what I'd have done in his shoes: mix it, enjoy it, get drunk to some extent over time. Find out when to stop, laugh at people who didn't, feel really, really mature and go to bed. Enjoy sleeping very deeply and very relaxed, and in the morning, laugh a bit more at the people who didn't know when to stop because of how they look like and how they touch their heads and moan.

Social acceptance, finding out how funny it is to be moderately drunk, and a buttload of fun! And deep, relaxing sleep! All on a silver platter! I thought it's good advice. Maybe it isn't.

To address what you were trying to ask about:
If you're not interested, then you're not interested. Your loss.
I know dozens, probably hundreds of people who enjoy alcohol on a regular basis. None of them is an alcoholic, or constantly broke or otherwise ruining his life or his health.
I know one guy who doesn't drink alcohol. He's a Muslim from Tunesia, a very good-looking, funny, out-going guy.
I don't know a single person who tried alcohol and never touched it again.

[Pesty]

I've added a smiley to my previous post, especially for you

With butt sex finally out of the way:
I didn't want to sound defensive, I'm merely throwing out arguments for my stance.

Oliwerko wrote about a party where some girl gave him the advice to swallow it quickly.
It sounded like the people considered drinking as some kind of extreme sport, not means to boost the fun. So I told him what I'd have done in his shoes: mix it, enjoy it, get drunk to some extent over time. Find out when to stop, laugh at people who didn't, feel really, really mature and go to bed. Enjoy sleeping very deeply and very relaxed, and in the morning, laugh a bit more at the people who didn't know when to stop because of how they look like and how they touch their heads and moan.

Social acceptance, finding out how funny it is to be moderately drunk, and a buttload of fun! And deep, relaxing sleep! All on a silver platter! I thought it's good advice. Maybe it isn't.

To address what you were trying to ask about:
If you're not interested, then you're not interested. Your loss.
I know dozens, probably hundreds of people who enjoy alcohol on a regular basis. None of them is an alcoholic, or constantly broke or otherwise ruining his life or his health.
I know one guy who doesn't drink alcohol. He's a Muslim from Tunesia, a very good-looking, funny, out-going guy.
I don't know a single person who tried alcohol and never touched it again.

Hi, I'm sorry but you make no sense to me? You seem confused by people who choose not to drink because they don't like the taste, and you keep mentioning things like mixed drinks in order to avoid the alcohol taste. I've had a lot of people say similar things to me when I say "No, no thanks, I don't drink. I don't like the taste of alcohol." I also don't like the idea of being drunk. I find that drinking alcohol has absolutely no appeal to me. Is this because I just haven't had enough mixed drinks? I simply just don't think this is the case. No amount of alcoholic drinks that don't taste like they're alcoholic will make me ever want to be drunk. No amount of alcohol will ever make me enjoy the taste.

I just don't understand why I have to be drunk or drinking to be fun and socially accepted. You enjoy drinking, I can tell this from every single one of your posts in this thread, but I don't. Would I be less fun than you at a party? Maybe, but I'm happy with myself and that is all that matters to me.

I just don't agree that it's good advice to tell someone who says they don't like to drink to keep trying until they like it, or to drink stuff that doesn't taste like alcohol. I think it's better advice to say "Hey, just be yourself. If you are not the 'drink a bunch and laugh it up' type, then don't try to force yourself to be. This doesn't make you a creepy weirdo, eating houseflies on purpose does."

Also, butt sex will never really be out of the way, will it?

[Khris]

I just don't get what's so special about alcohol. I simply don't get why there are people who refuse to try it in the first place. It doesn't make any sense at all.

Imagine the following dialog:
"I've tried coffee. I like. I've tried sweets. I like. I've tried sushi. I like."
"Have you tried alcohol?"
"ALCOHOL!!1 Nah, I'll never try that!!"
"What, why not? What's so special about alcohol?"
"Err, I have no idea. But I'll never try it!!"

It just doesn't make any sense.

About the taste: every alcoholic beverage can be considered mixed. Whiskey is 40% alcohol and 60% "whiskey-flavored water", if you will.
If you don't like the taste, it's just a matter of finding a mix that you like. I've specifically mentioned Vodka Orange because the orange juice does a nice job of covering the vodka's taste.
You said "No amount of alcohol will ever make me enjoy the taste." The only valid conclusion is that your nose, brain or both are significantly different from the rest of the world's.

You said "I find that drinking alcohol has absolutely no appeal to me."
That's like an Inuit saying "I find that spending a week at a beach in Thailand, lying under palmtrees in white sand, looking at crystal clear, green water has absolutely no appeal to me."
Or like a person who was born blind saying "Being able to see has absolutely no appeal to me."
My point here isn't that drinking alcohol was the absolute paradise, my point is that you simply have no concept of what it's like to be tipsy, so talking about appeal is pointless.

And then again this stuff about you being happy with yourself without booze, quietly implementing that all drinkers were somehow self-conscious.
That's like the most invalid argument EVER.
Either you're tremendously inconsequent, or you've got to stop taking painkillers, drinking coffee, getting a haircut, washing your clothes, even wearing them.
All these make you feel better / less embarrassed / less tired / less cold. Why do you need them if you're happy with yourself?
Alcohol even covers three of those points. It's just another tiny item on a long, long list of things humans do to increase their quality of life.

If logic doesn't convince you, there's still experience.
I've yet to encounter a single person who got introduced to alcohol, kept at it for a while and stopped (voluntarily, not due to money, health or law).
There's a simple explanation: those people are incredibly rare.

Everybody who doesn't live in some freakish community is bound to be surrounded by people who enjoy alcohol. Are they all utterly wrong? Self-delusional? Completely fine and normal, only terribly, deeply wrong about one single thing? All of them?

[theatrx]

Oliwerko, Drinking does not make friends. Smoking does not make friends.  Sex does not make friends.  and if I may add Religion does not make friends.  They all make acquaintances.  Each trades off one addiction for another.  I have lots of friends that don't do any of the above... I on the other hand... never mind.  The point is.  People need people of all types and genres.  They make us who we are.  If you're not happy with any of that stuff... Go for it!  That's you.  That's your gift.  That's your wonder... your intrigue... your mystery... Your Power.  Go with it. Don't worry about 'fitting in'.  I hope you don't watch television?! Go to where your heart and mind sends you.  They won't let you down. Hugs.

ps... My fathers family is from  Poland.  YA!

[MrColossal]

I just don't get what's so special about alcohol. I simply don't get why there are people who refuse to try it in the first place. It doesn't make any sense at all.

Imagine the following dialog:
"I've tried coffee. I like. I've tried sweets. I like. I've tried sushi. I like."
"Have you tried alcohol?"
"ALCOHOL!!1 Nah, I'll never try that!!"
"What, why not? What's so special about alcohol?"
"Err, I have no idea. But I'll never try it!!"

It just doesn't make any sense.

Have you read anything that the people who say they don't like the taste have written? I have tried many types of alcohol, I don't like the taste of 99% of them. What is so hard to understand about that?

You just imagined that dialogue but please find it in these posts.

"I simply don't get why there are people who refuse to try it in the first place."

Pete and I are very similar. We don't like the taste, we don't like the idea of inhibiting out brains in ways we can avoid. If someone orders a drink and says "This is great! Try it!" we will try it. Maybe it does taste good, maybe it doesn't. If it does, great! There's still that self imposed desire to not inhibit our brains in avoidable ways.

One of the only things I've tried that tastes good is Sangria. HOWEVER, just because it tastes good still doesn't mean I want to try getting drunk or even tipsy. Who the heckfire is saying "I don't drink and everyone who does is wrong!"? Please tell me! You're blowing this way out of whack, man! I'm sorry, but you are incredibly defensive and reading into the tiniest thing. Pete never said anything like that what you're freaking out about.

There are millions of things that don't appeal to me. Eating jellyfish is one of them. I have never and do not see myself eating jellyfish in the foreseeable future, I'm not saying that anyone who has is an idiot. I'm just saying that it doesn't appeal to me. It's not that hard.

I don't like the idea or the chemistry or even the smallest affect it has on the body behind drinking. Now I feel I have to parse this down to the nub, by affect on the body I don't mean liver disease or anything like that. I just don't like the idea of losing even the smallest bit of "control" over my senses. I don't like the taste and I don't like the idea of having my brain inhibited. I'm happy the way I am. Other people can do whatever they want as long as they're happy.

Other people can do whatever they want as long as they're happy. Written twice so you don't think I'm making some sly remark against drinkers.

"I know dozens, probably hundreds of people who enjoy alcohol on a regular basis. None of them is an alcoholic, or constantly broke or otherwise ruining his life or his health."

That's awesome, I never said everyone who drinks is an alcoholic or constantly broke or ruining their lives. Defensive.

"And then again this stuff about you being happy with yourself without booze, quietly implementing that all drinkers were somehow self-conscious."

Very defensive again.

[JimmyShelter]

I just don't get what's so special about alcohol. I simply don't get why there are people who refuse to try it in the first place. It doesn't make any sense at all.

Imagine the following dialog:
"I've tried coffee. I like. I've tried sweets. I like. I've tried sushi. I like."
"Have you tried alcohol?"
"ALCOHOL!!1 Nah, I'll never try that!!"
"What, why not? What's so special about alcohol?"
"Err, I have no idea. But I'll never try it!!"

If someone would say they don't like the taste of coffee, would you tell them to mix it up with something so they won't be bothered by the taste?

Probably not, you would give them something else to drink.

Why is it that if someone doesn't like alcohol, people seem to go all "ah man, just a few glasses won't hurt".

My girlfriend doesn't drink, and it's unbelievable how many people seem to be bothered by that. People really seem to be offended sometimes, and think you're no fun if you don't drink.
It's almost enough a reason for me to stop drinking. (The puking last weekend is another good reason  )

[EldKatt]

If the length of my post bores you, read the final paragraph, because that's where I'm really trying to make my point.

Second-hand knowledge? Riiight. Sorry, that seems way more flawed than my argument.
Have you tried chocolate? Sure you have. But do you really think somebody could describe the taste of it accurately enough to satisfy you if you hadn't (since you do know how it tastes)? No way.
Btw, you should be consequent and warn others when you see they're going eat to chocolate. I mean it takes just a tiny nibble and all your teeth will fall out and you're going to die of diabetes.

And about alcohol being a drug: just like any other drug, or chocolate, it's only dangerous if you consume unreasonable amounts.

I readily, immediately accept the refusal to drink alcohol from anyone. If the person tried it. Because despite what they might think, they don't have any idea of how it feels to be drunk.

Sorry for my lack of polite rhetorical finesse (I have better things to do than sugar-coat my opinions in a forum discussion with some guy), but I quite simply think you're completely missing my point.  Your own chocolate analogy serves my purposes pretty well. Yeah, you're right. I can't experience chocolate fully based on a verbal explanation. Without tasting it. Same with one of a million random exotic foods. But why the hell should I? Does it matter that much? Why should I insist that everyone I meet try chocolate? And by extension try everything else that they haven't tried.

However open-minded you think you are, there's an enormous number of things that you are rejecting, consciously or not, because life is literally too short to try everything. You have to choose what interests you enough to try. And sure, you have every right to feel sorry for those who miss out on things that you feel are really great, but you must acknowledge that they're just making their own choices. Unlike with chocolate (the effect of which is purely one of taste) the effects of alcohol are observable. This is what I mean by second hand knowledge. It affects your emotions (often inducing euphoria, but occasionally negative emotions as well), it reduces inhibition, and lowers coorination (articulatory coordination as well, making your speech sound slightly more stupid).

And just to make sure we're clear here: I have tried it. I have been drunk, although never hung over (and this, I'm afraid, is not something I'm planning on trying). And yeah, it was fun. Lots of fun. The side-effects I had predicted based on my second-hand observation were present, though. Weighing the pros and cons, I believe I prefer going to a party and having just as much fun, with the added benefit of precise articulation and the ability to outsmart people in an argument, as well as the knowledge that my brain is causing me to enjoy myself without any chemical amusement aid (as Frank Zappa described it). All these benefits are benefits that I were fully aware of even before trying. Now, don't get me wrong, I do not regret having tried it. But, as it turns out, I realize that I was kind of right from the beginning.



As you say, a person who has not tried alcohol have no idea what it feels like to be drunk. But I also realize that a great number of people (in fact most people) have no idea what I get out of the structural awesomeness of a Bach fugue, the balanced expression of a Beethoven symphony, or the acute communication between the members of a jazz trio. Nonetheless, I really don't mind or care if some random person chooses not to go with me to a concert, or refuses to sit with me for an evening listening to records. Because in the end, I have no idea what it feels like to stand in a roaring crowd at a football game, nor would I go out of my way to try it, so really, who the hell am I to talk? We all make our choices. We don't all make the same ones. That's it.

[Andail]

I can totally accept that people don't like to drink, and I like to think I'm not the kind of person who coaxes and urges whenever a person declines a drink or a beer.
My reaction was just aimed at those who consider drinkers inhibited and socially challenged people, in need of substances to become extrovert. This is true in many cases, but it's also a prejudice.
Some people just prefer the feeling of slight intoxication, because of how it affects your creativity and inspiration.

The people I usually hang out with in the weekends and go to pubs with are very socially skilled individuals, they easily connect with strangers and have an easy time finding girls (when they're not in relationships, of course). Still they - just like me - like to drink regularly. And they're normal, decent, intellectual people.

[InCreator]

Drinking does not make friends. Smoking does not make friends.  Sex does not make friend

Wrong wrong wrong!!! Okay, it doesn't have to make a friend but often adds so much that it makes up almost whole befriending process. And I have too much cases in my life where I got drunk with a stranger, and ended up singing together, drinking more and being friends after that night.

Drinking:
Ancient method to release psychological pressure and lower our natural fear of other people - which comes from us being carnivores thus being a danger to each other. Alcohol helps a lot to socialize, make first contact. Before countering someone new, let's say - at a bar, everyone takes a drink or two first. Of course, being totally drunk often reverses the effect.

Smoking:
In every new school, job, jail... wherever, the smoking corner is where smoker-newcomer gets to know others. That's the very first thing he/she has in common with others in the corner. I know this very well, because other smokers are usually first people I get to know and have chat with in new school or job. Smoking together is highly social activity. You join other smokers, light up... "Oh, the new guy. What's your name?". The one that asked will usually be your best buddy in the long run.

Sex:
Arguable, not sure. If you're good at it, well...

But for a taste, you have to drink intelligently, as I said. After you have washed down a cocktail or two, you shouldn't have any problems with taste anymore

Anyway, the worst that can happen if you drink, is being a star. A star in a way where everybody tells you what you did next day. And you - unfortunately - don't remember a thing. It's funny, but more frustrating than fun.

Healthy lifestyle is strongest excuse for ignorance. My philosophy allows and courages to try everything atleast once in a life, unless it's injectable (strong drugs!) or follows with criminal punishment. Well, or is gay.

[Oliwerko]

Well,

Chris,
Why cant you accept that something just do not appeal to someone ? It is irelevant what it is, if beer, vodka, coffee, cola, sitting on a beach or playing computer games. I was intending to find a solution to my problem, that is not actually to start to drink. Read my first post. If I started to drink, I would not have that problem, thats right. I could start and the problem will be gone. BUT: I was searching for some solution that is not actually the alcohol itself. I do not say that having a beer or two once a week is killing you, nor do I say that it is unacceptable. But why cant you just understand people who JUST do not want to drink ?

I do not want to upset or offend you. But that stuff about mixing it with something else and so on is just like that "close your eyes and drink it fast". You are writing exactly the things that my peers advise me to do. That is not the right solution for me. It is a solution, easy one, but I just do not like it. Because of this, I wrote my first post. Because of advices like yours.

JimmyShelter - I really like that coffee mixing situation.

[Khris]

MrColossal:
I was under the impression you hadn't tried anything apart from a half glass of wine.
And my most recent post was directed at Pesty. The answer to yours is above hers.
I didn't freak out and I didn't feel offended. I sat calmly in front of my monitor and thought of examples to base my arguments on. If you feel that's defensive, that's fine.

"None of them is an alcoholic, or constantly broke or otherwise ruining his life or his health." That wasn't meant as a defense against some hidden attack, I simply wanted to point out that it's easy to drink responsible and there aren't any downsides in that case. IMO.

JimmyShelter:
If someone didn't like coffee, I'd probably tell them to drink tea or Coke instead. It's about the caffeine in this case, and there are alternatives, just like with alcohol.

EldKatt:
Rejecting alcohol isn't like rejecting one thing among millions, it's more like rejecting a huge group of things. Like rejecting meat or exotic fruit or whatever. I chose chocolate because it tastes unique and everyone has tried it.
Life might be too short to try everything, but it isn't too short to try alcohol. It's available everywhere. I get your point though.
Chocolate contains sugar which is bad for your teeth and your blood. So telling me about the bad side-effects of alcohol will only strengthen my point.
Plus you're preaching to the choir; losing some self-control can be fun! It's boring to always be in complete control.
And btw, everybody gives up control. Get in the passenger's seat of a car, bam, you just lost a good deal of control.
I didn't know you did try; your previous post sounded like you never did.
I'm not sure if I get the meaning of your last paragraph, are you comparing something very few people enjoy to something practically everybody enjoys?

Final note on this topic:
After a few lengthy posts directed at people who never tried alcohol, suddenly everybody did try it and all I wrote was in vain... Well.

Andail&InCreator: seconded.

Oliwerko:
There's no obvious solution to your problem. The advice I gave you was a purely practical one: drinking slowly with lots of juice won't make you barf and enables you to stop in time. So it actually isn't quite like "close your eyes and drink fast" which will make you barf and hit you like a hammer.
If you want to socialize with people who will only accept you if you drink, there's no other way. So either start drinking or don't socialize. I'm afraid it's as simple as that.
But I guess you already knew that when you opened this thread.

[EldKatt]

Rejecting alcohol isn't like rejecting one thing among millions, it's more like rejecting a huge group of things. Like rejecting meat or exotic fruit or whatever. I chose chocolate because it tastes unique and everyone has tried it.
Life might be too short to try everything, but it isn't too short to try alcohol.

You do realize that I could just as well say that rejecting jazz isn't like rejecting one thing among millions, it's like rejecting a huge group of things? Or life may be too short to try everything, but it isn't too short to try jazz!

I'm not sure if I get the meaning of your last paragraph, are you comparing something very few people enjoy to something practically everybody enjoys?

Well, if you're making the argument that music is something very few people enjoy (which also feels to me like a rather biased statement to make), then I suppose I am. I then continued by comparing it to spectator sports, which is perhaps somewhat more popular, in a sense, than Bach. But I fail to see how popularity is relevant to the issue. Feels like a kind of ad populum argument, though not quite...