AGS Games Online

[kqgamer]

Hey, everyone.  I recently downloaded "A Tale of Two Kingdoms" and I love it.  I'm new to the AGS scene, but I was thinking that it would be great to allow online play.  What I mean is, I think it would be great to play "A Tale of Two Kingdoms" online with a friend.  It would just be two players and you could switch off.  You could let your friend control the mouse until he gets tired, and then you could control the mouse.  That way, while your friend is playing you could make some popcorn and have a coke while he's hard at work.  When he gets stuck or tired, you could take control and he could relax a bit.  There could be a chatbar or voice chat to allow communication between you and your friend.  What do you think?

[Ubel]

What's the point? Just invite your friend over at your place and play on one computer. Though if you insist in playing online, there are programs that let other people access your computer via the internet. And voice chat could be handled by Skype or a similiar program.

[Pumaman]

Technically multiplayer support would be possible, but I don't think we ever managed to come up with a decent gameplay for multiplayer adventures.

There was quite a long discussion about it here:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=12421.0

[kqgamer]

What's the point? Just invite your friend over at your place and play on one computer. Though if you insist in playing online, there are programs that let other people access your computer via the internet. And voice chat could be handled by Skype or a similiar program.

The point is I live in Antofagasta, Chile and no one speaks English here, so they aren't going to enjoy playing a game in English even I sit by them and translate every word to Spanish.  My friend who likes these kinds of games is in the U.S.

Thanks for the link, Pumaman.  I'll check it out.

[Radiant]

What I mean is, I think it would be great to play "A Tale of Two Kingdoms" online with a friend.

Thank you

I think what you're suggesting is already possible, using Windows's remote desktop interface. That is, if given privileges, your friend should be able to log in to your computer via the internet, and "control" it from there, while you watch on your screen. Help desks sometimes use this technology.

[SSH]

I think only Windows XP Pro has the server side of this, but you can also use the freeware VNC

[Khris]

Remote Desktop won't allow two people to watch the screen because the local user gets kicked out as soon as someone logs in remotely to the same account and vice versa (afaik).

VNC would work fine but unfortunately won't send sound to the remote computer.
The good thing is that you can chat via notepad

[subspark]

I don't think we ever managed to come up with a decent gameplay for multiplayer adventures.

Darn I missed this thread. I always imagined a good multiplayer game would be something like Day of the Tentacle. 3 people join across a network to take control of 3 different characters. They need each other's different skills or times to get past the game.

I can't believe no ones done this yet. Cooperative gameplay is a late trend that should have been commonplace in the late 90s.

Paul.

[Renal Shutdown]

Cooperative gameplay may be a trend, but imagine this sceranio.

Two players, need to do say 3 puzzles each before the story can advance.
You're a whizz at adventure games, and finish quickly.  You're teamed with an imbecile, who has taken ages to finish the first of his/her three puzzles.
You're starting to get bored, so they check a walkthrough to solve the second puzzle.
You're expecting the story to move on, only to find out they've taken a break for dinner.

Cooperative gameplay works when the games are designed for it.  Point and Clicks are designed more as an interactive movie.  Giving two people remotes for the VCR would just end in chaos.

[Dualnames]

Ok, this was well said. But nevertheless except from people that want to play online games there are people that find more things in online games, like talking about a game you like, chit chating and all that staff.. Imagine Reality on The Norm Online for example.. I'd like to be part in that.. I have a very good idea about online adventure games the problem is that the TCp ip plugin  is way too complicated...

[Joseph DiPerla]

And outdated. I dont think it would work with this version of AGS anyway.

Cooperative gameplay is possible in adventure games. You make a sort of Spy Vs Spy type game.

It is possible. The only thing is that when you connect to an AAS (AGS adventure Server), you would need a way for AGS to update its content and scripts. EG: if you created a new room, or added characters or edited a script and dialog.

Alternatively, you can make games for witch hunts, And mazes. Or you can even make a giant AGS chat community with an AGS online. There are options for making online games with AGS.

How easy it would be for Chris is another story though...

[subspark]

Giving two people remotes for the VCR would just end in chaos

While that scenario might occur, I disagree with your statement entirely.
It doesn't matter what game your playing, if your team mates arnet pulling their weight then the game is less enjoyable.
This is an unavoidable downside to playing with people you don't know over the internet but the issue is not one that should deprive any game of cooperative gameplay mechanics.

The reality is, people who play new games online learn as they go so if your the poor fellow stuck on a puzzle, and your team mates have reached their 'checkpoint' they can offer a friendly hint to you over chat or the game might decide when a player needs a kick in the right direction. This is of course an ideal situation that can be reinforced by strong game design.

For example: multiple difficulty levels.

Player 1 might have chosen 'easy' puzzles, the second might choose moderate and the third player might decide that difficult puzzles are more appropriate. If your game puzzles are constructed at their most complicated level, they could be dropped back in complexity to accomodate the other difficulty levels.

A Point & Click adventure has never been graced with such design but it's certainly possible and well deserved.

Cheers,
Paul.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

A Point & Click adventure has never been graced with such design

Difficulty level design? System Shock is not pure adventure, but it did have an option to ease down on puzzles. So did Wild Wild West. At any rate, MI2 and MI3 definitely had them.

Renal's scenario makes sense in games like Day of the Tentacle. In games like Maniac Mansion, however, it COULD work, because players aren't dependent on other players - they actually have to solve the thing together and work as a team. A team of 2 rather than a team of 3, but that's a design issue.

[subspark]

Difficulty level design?  MI2 and MI3 definitely had them.

No I meant design in general. The cooperative gameplay, the carefully though out puzzles.

Renal's scenario makes sense in games like Day of the Tentacle

Day of the Tentacle would be an ideal game for cooperative gameplay because players are indeed reliant on each other to solve puzzles with their own unique powers. Be that stuck in different times or possessing unique skills like in Maniac Mansion.

The same idea can be applied across the board.
It seems the only thing holding back cooperative gameplay is the notion that people would abuse it
Suffice to say there are by far worse ways to abuse a computer game and online gameplay than to be slow at solving puzzles.
These issues are present in modern 3d shooters where a newcomer will join a server expecting it to play like it's single player campaign only to be impossibly blasted in the face by fast twitch hardcorer's who clearly out-skill the majority. Again, these issues are about but they are not impossible to solve.

Classic Point & Click Adventures represent an era before mistrust and abuse shrouded the internet. Why anybody would want to abuse online cooperative entertainment in general is a mystery best solved by computer sociologists.
Our job is to make great games that the majority can enjoy. 

EDIT: Does anybody know if the TCIP Plug-in works for AGS 3.0? Or has something better been developed so far?

Paul.

[Radiant]

It seems the only thing holding back cooperative gameplay is the notion that people would abuse it

I don't think that's the case. Rather, it would seem to be exceedingly difficult to design a game so that (1) the players are dependent enough on one another that they aren't simply playing a different game each, and (2) the players are independent enough so that one's lack of progress doesn't hamper another's.

It would seem that adventure games don't mesh well with this. I suspect the only way to persuade people that this is a viable approach, is by designing a game that does it.

[scotch]

Radiant is right, a lot of people have considered this before, many times over the years, but I'm yet to see a convincing cooperative design. Even if we assume trustworthy players will agree to play an adventure game for some hours, save together and continue together, it's still tricky.

Imagine three players are doing DOTT style puzzles. How do you avoid all the time people are sitting around with unwinnable puzzles waiting for other people to do their part? And how do you make this feel different to a single player game when the puzzles are mostly solved apart from each other?

If you want coop then seperating players like that would seem to defeat the purpose. So people have tried designing puzzles that require more than one player to solve together, either requiring two or more actions to be performed at once, or giving different characters different abilities (consider Foster and Joey pairing up at times in BASS). This is cooperative, and possible, but tough to do, and it doesn't work if only one person wants to play. There are a lot of issues in AGS that would make it technically difficult too, but of course that could be overcome if there's a concerted effort.

If someone has come up with a great workable design for a multiplayer game then they should post it for discussion. I wouldn't mind writing multiplayer support, but there seems to be little point at present.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Day of the Tentacle would be an ideal game for cooperative gameplay

Imagine three players are doing DOTT style puzzles. How do you avoid all the time people are sitting around with unwinnable puzzles waiting for other people to do their part? And how do you make this feel different to a single player game when the puzzles are mostly solved apart from each other?

Agree with Scotch, but the biggest argument for me is still: in MM, all three players were exploring the same place, and could communicate. In DoTT, they're stranded on time zones. There's no way they can communicate, and in a multiplayer experience true to the game, neither could the players. Plus, each player would experience only one third of the game.

How infuriating can it be, to think that you've done all you could in a time zone and wait for someone else to drop the item you NEED right down on the john, when that person has no reason to think you might need that item?

[Khris]

I'd say the type of game suited best is a two-player Gobliiins, like Gobliins 2.
Restrict the players to one, maybe two rooms, make both switch rooms if one of them exits, allow them to chat, give them clear objectives.
It's the only adventure game I can think of where a two-player online collaboration makes sense and/or enriches the gameplay.

The technical side should be manageable; the first player runs the server game which acts on both user inputs (the second player's being sent over the line) while the client game updates the screen using RawDrawn screenshots (if that's fast enough) or just object and char positions and their current sprites. That should avoid any command collisions since only one game is gonna handle everything VNC-style.

[subspark]

I think you've all made valid points and your worst case scenarios for cooperative gameplay of this kind are not unreasonable. The truth of the matter is, as Radiant has expressed is if theres going to be a paradigm shift in Point & Click Cooperative gameplay, somebody is just going to have to do it.

Theres nothing I can see here that cannot be accounted for and carefully designed to avoid a detrimental effect on multiplayer gameplay.
I assure you, this can be done gentlemen, it simply has never been done.

Cheers,
Paul.

[ezra]

Coming back to the original question, I think a good way you and your friend from the US can play the same SINGLE PLAYER game, and just take it in turns, is to send the save-game file back and forth to each other. Or have a constant synchronization of the save-game file. All this other stuff about multiplayer adventure gaming with DOTT etc. just won't work. Adventure games are meant to be played single player - where there is one protagonist, and the player plays as him/her. I honestly can't think of any way that multi-player would work, but I'm not saying there isn't a way... I just haven't found one yet.