AdventureCon! Take 2...and see me in the morning.

[m0ds]

Very true auriond. If he was able to realise the most of us are just humble people content with slightly less glitzy events than this he'd have a bigger success on his hands. I've seen a lot of conventions fail because they've gone for such classy locations. But look at us, we're finding it hard to keep it under 30 attendees at a lot of "related" events to the community, which is great. Location hunting can be hard though. I think for the most part this guy needs to consider new locations, less glitzy. Eventually he'll find one that is amicable with your average adventure fan. I'm pretty sure most of them aren't the super-rich which every year AdventureCon seems to strike me as only appealing to them. Other than that, the guest list is good, but nothing out of the ordinary for me. Speaking as a LucasArts fan I'd prefer to see a bit more balance in the VIP list especially because of the debates. Putting A in adventure, putting K up my nose, the formula to success in adventure games, the forumla for scoring women with cheap adventure game innuendos, etc. Those debates aren't justified with the people I really think made an impact, and especially not with people who CAN/ARE/WILL make an impact. I'll come back to this.

Al Lowe seems to attend any old convention, and the majority else, even those invited but unable to attend (bar Chris Jones, tex murphy) caters for the Sierra element of our hayday, but what about LucasArts? As I said one of the key debates at AdventureCon is "Discussion Panel: The Secret Formula to Success in Adventure Games". I'm sure some of that debate & the others they have would come down to where did it all go wrong? And a lot of that discussion would need to be focussed on LucasArts. All good and well not having anyone from them there, but THAT would be the moneysworth for me. I am LucasArts biassed but I feel AdCon is too Sierra biassed. It's like a bad homage, which with a bit of tweaking could be a very good one. They've got a lot of "greats" but its kind of a shameful representation, especially if he's adding glitz to it. We've got Al Lowe who did create good adventures but has undoubtedly watch his LSL franchise go to shit. Scott Adams, Chris Jones, perfectly agreeable with me. Not sure of the others. Inviting Roberta Williams to an adventure related convention of any kind seems to be default. Again there are few LucasArts representatives, ever. Adventure games went out of market because LucasArts fired all their creative talent & Sierra gave up when they realised they'd accidentally signed a 50 year contract with Roberta :p They never quite managed to harness Creative Quest. But that is a dangerous debate around here, a laughable one at that though. Well for me nowadays anyway :p That aside they'd also need to focus on the future of adventures and they're not representing that at all, no Dave Gilbert, no Ben Croshaw, no Chris Jones (AGS) and no wpowell either. No representation from those who are actually still making these games, not just peoples who did it 15 years ago. I'd find these people just as appealing as the "greats". Anyway this is just rambling, its my first point that I really think AdventureCon man should focus on, less glitz.

[LimpingFish]

Both Auriond and Mods raise interesting points.

Conventions should really be about getting as many fans together as possible, to celebrate whatever subject it is they have in common; adventure games or otherwise. Things like guest speakers and VIP appearances should really just be the icing on the cake, rather than the main focus.

If someone could put a together a con where indie/amateur adventure developers/fans could experience the adventure scene as a whole (showcasing new games, retrospectives of classic game series, discussions, etc), with the added bonus of a VIP guest speaker (singular), and perhaps some input from the odd commercial studio (exclusive looks at upcoming projects and whatnot), they might have something worthwhile on their hands. Plus, it shouldn't be too hard to set aside space for auctions and collectors, offsetting some of the event costs with nominal "seller" fees.

Of course, putting such a plan into action is another thing entirely, but it shouldn't be impossible.

The most important thing to remember is that, no matter who may be appearing, if it cost to attend isn't viable to the average fan, then your event is dead in the water.

And saying the event costs x amount to stage, so, like it or lump it, you're going to have to pay y amount to attend, isn't how you entice people to come.

And expecting people to pay more, so that the event can make a profit, is just...missing the point.

[Pumaman]

I'm not really clear about what exactly is supposed to happen at this thing, and the website is very vague about it.

So there are some VIP guests. Are they giving talks or are they sitting at stalls doing Q&A? If so what are they going to talk about?

What happens for the rest of the time when there isn't a talk going on (which looks like it will be most of the time judging by the schedule)? Since he's saying there isn't going to be an exhibition hall or stands or anything like that, what are people supposed to do? Mill around aimlessly for 2 hours in between each talk?

In principal I'd like to support an event like this, but unfortunately it just sounds like it's going to be poorly managed and a waste of an expensive air fare to attend it. He doesn't even mention how much these special block-booked hotel rooms cost, but considering that it looks like quite a swanky hotel, they can't be cheap.

As m0ds said, why not start off by just getting a single VIP to do a talk in a big city location like New York or London, with some sort of dinner/drinks afterwards, and see how many people turn up? If it works, grow it from there.

I'm not sure how much research Howard has done into this, but I can't imagine 400 people buying a ticket to it.

[Dave Gilbert]

It's interesting to compare the Howard of this year to the one of last year.  Last year, despite how ridiculous the con was, he seemed really excited about it.  His mailing list emails were full of buzz and hype and infectious joy.  He posted on all the adventure game forums and really tried to drum up publicity for the convention.  It was kind of cute, in a train wreck kind of way. 

This year, there's none of that.  If he couldn't make it work last year (with all the hype), I don't see it working this year (with all the bitterness). 

Still, the convention is 6 months away.  Most conventions don't really get their act together until 2-3 months before it begins.  The website for the I-CON convention (where I am speaking next weekend. plug plug) is chock full o' stuff, but 3 months ago it was pretty sparse.  Not as sparse as adventurecon, true, but still sparse.

[LimpingFish]

Like I said earlier, I've tried to approach this years event with an open mind. If Howard manages to pull it off, then more power to him. As casual observers, it's easy to point out what we believe to be apparent flaws in his plan, but who really knows?

It's just hard to post anything positive about AdventureCon, without adding "...but I doubt it will work." 

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I don't buy the whole part about them having to entice these over-the-hill game devs like Al Lowe with a 3500 dollar package just to get them to show up.  I'm betting those people would be more than eager to see some fans after all these years and get their names back in the spotlight.  I think it's just an excuse for them to increase the entrance fees so they can maximize profits.

[deadsuperhero]

Darn, I read the FAQ, hoping that indie Adventure Game developers would be showing off their games in an E3-esque fashion. Oh well.
They need to take a page out of some of those fantastic LinuxWorld Expo sessions, where there's a ridiculous amount of booths touting various products.
Ah well. If worse comes to worse, and it flops, I guess we'll just have to wait for a real expo. If I had enough money, time, and was over the age of 21, I would sponsor such a thing. There would be a lot of beer, though.

[LimpingFish]

http://www.adventurecon.org/

AdventureCon is apparently no more, seeing as the domain is dead, and Mr Sherman hasn't updated it's situation since February.

He'll be at Gen Con, though...

[Captain Lexington]

Damn it, LimpingFish, here I came all the way back to third or fourth page to find this thread and when I finish with it I go back to the main page and it says the most recent post was...here?! Way to freak me out.


Anyway, AdventureCon, sweet as it would be, wasn't going to work out. I wanted it to, though.

[Pumaman]

I think this quote from Howard sums up just how in-touch he is with the average adventure gamer:

"Do you really want to meet Al Lowe then go pick up Burger King and crash in your room at the Holiday Inn?

Wouldn't you rather meet the masters of the adventure game world, enjoy a gourmet dinner cooked-up by a world famous chef then head off to your room for a night of pure luxury, basking in the glow of what an incredible day it was?

If the perception by too many is that the price is too high they need to go back and re-read the AGE faq.  And if they still feel the price is too high they need to re-re-read the FAQ until it penetrates.

“If the hotel price kills it then so be it."

[Radiant]

Wouldn't you rather meet the masters of the adventure game world, enjoy a gourmet dinner cooked-up by a world famous chef then head off to your room for a night of pure luxury, basking in the glow of what an incredible day it was?

Well, come to think of it, I would enjoy that gourmet dinner and night of pure luxury. Hey, I've created more adventure games the last five years than Al Lowe, and so have half of the other people on this forum. It's very rude that he hasn't invited us!

[auriond]

Not surprised...

Still sad, though.

edit: Goodness... he really IS clueless. It must be unthinkable to him that some of us, in fact, would NOT like to have a gourmet dinner cooked up by a world class chef and do NOT think that meeting the masters of the adventure game world is top priority at a convention...

[Dave Gilbert]

God this man is like a train wreck.  It's awful but I can't look away.  Every time he does something I am fascinated, and  his posts are no exception.  If he had any clue what was really happening in the adventure game world he'd know that the Four Fat Chicks have always supported adventure games and are very well known in the scene.  Throwing such bile and bitterness their way is like shooting himself in the foot.

Still, with such a horrible attitude i wonder why he even bothered in the first place.  A publicity stunt?  Perhaps.  If so, it worked.  Heck, we're talking about him now.  Maybe I should adopt the same marketing strategy.  Who's up for WadjetCon?

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

I'd love having a burger with Al Lowe. I reserve top gourmet dinners for, like, opera divas.

Al Lowe would probably be more at ease himself.

[GarageGothic]

I just read his "Four fat bitches" rant - this guy really needs to get back on whatever medication he ought to be taking.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

http://adventuregamingexpo.malinche.net/

How kewl. He even put himself in the list.

[LimpingFish]

Oh, it was AdventureGamingExpo in the end, was it? It's odd that he refers to it as such throughout his rant, when, afaik, it was advertised under the title AdventureCon.

What is the point of listing people who would (might) have turned up after the event has been declared dead? It's like some bizarre form of adventure nerd name dropping. Including his own name is just tragic.

This person is very bitter about something:

"For all I know these four fat bitches may very well be four fat faggots. They sure act like faggots at any rate...." (Obviously Howard's products aren't sold to "faggots"...)

"I have a daughter to play with in the park. A wife to cook gourmet food for and fool around with. A Jaguar to drive. Golf balls to shoot. Talmud to study.
A technology company to run. In short: A life to live." ("I'm not a nerd. Honest!")

"I put some fire in the bellies of adventurers who had received a dozen emails on every topic ranging from VIP guest requests to help convincing Ken and Roberta Williams to appear to actually signing up with very little in the way of a response at any time...I told them to get off the fence and get on the bus to Adventure Gaming Expo." (These people owe you, or "the fans", nothing, Howard. Stop passing off your failures as theirs. And you are NOT the voice of the modern adventure scene. Get over it.)

"Are people shocked because I brought character back to corporate climate? Do people really prefer dispassion over personality? Am I supposed to say "Aw, shucks, folks.  Sorry about that.  Y'all keep on being indecisive, mealy-mouthed cheap bastards.  It's all my fault you are that way." (My personal favourite.)

"If they can’t afford to participate in the single most important event to hit the adventure gaming world in a decade then fine. Don’t be bitter about it and attempt amateurish character assassinations..." (...)

"Go out and get a higher paying job, start a business, invest in the stock market, do whatever you can to make more money that would enable you to attend a monumental event like Adventure Gaming Expo.  Do not blame me for what you cannot do." (This one left me speechless.)

"I will take the battle to your front door and humiliate you while the whole world watches." (typed in bold, no less!)

"I run the best damned adventure game company in the world with superior products backed by the best customer service and technical support at incredibly fair prices.  You know it and I know it. I am damned proud of what we do for people every day of the week." (...what?)"

If any of these people Howard claims to have contact with have any sense, they'll keep as far away him as possible. He seems to have no qualm with viciously turning on people who don't agree with his outlook.

Although he seems happy to present himself, judging from his views/rants, as a hateful and delusional narcissist.

Still, with such a horrible attitude i wonder why he even bothered in the first place.  A publicity stunt?

Can't see that as likely. We may be talking about him, sure, but it's all negative. I doubt he'll see a sales jump. He might find gay people boycotting his games after that "faggot" jibe, though...

EDIT: I said in my first post in this thread that I was keeping an open mind about AdventureCon, and I stuck to that sentiment. That goodwill, towards AdventureCon and/or Howard Sherman, has now been used up.

[Babar]

Let it go. It's over. What's the purpose of going point by point through all he said, just to prove that he's an ass?


Perhaps it is different for me because I had no expectations about this event, it gave me no hopes to live up to, and it would have been very, very unlikely that I would have attended. But isn't it the same for most people here?

[evenwolf]

They held an Adventure Con in Knoxville Tennessee last year.    I met General Grievous there.


I don't know guys I'm pretty embarrassed to be at one of these.  All the middle-aged guys in Star Wars costumes makes me break out into laughter beyond my comfort level in public.  They had light sabre twirling competitions and 25 dollar autographs.   Nothing that caught my eye.

[Radiant]

Somebody ought to mention this guy to http://somethingawful.com