AGS Games page update

[Radiant]

I believe I found a minor bug: the "game length" pulldown is no longer available when submitting or editing a game entry.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

That's a pretty big bug!  I'm sure CJ will fix it asap.

[Snarky]

Good job, panel! And nice improvements feature-wise, also.

Personally, I prefer games that break the mold a little bit more than some of the top-rated ones, but overall it seems pretty fair (though ultimately still quite subjective). This will definitely make me sit down and try the four-star (and one or two five-star) games I haven't played.

It would be nice to be able to search for specific star ratings, not just "X and higher". Sometimes, you just want to find the worst game out there.

[JpSoft]

About Paul Quest...

The AGS Review Panel has left a comment about this game:
Extremely shoddy. Download links to RapidShare.

I really feel a little hurt. I understand the rating, but not the comment. Anyway, thanks for the time you guys take to play the game. And a good job with the games page.

jp

[Dualnames]

Good idea, though I didn't get the ratings I hoped for lc3 anyway, have to admit the rating is objective and maybe lc3 had to get that vote. Anyway, it was a huge project and glad they actually played my games, hopefully they didn;t bother them a lot..

[Ali]

Having checked Nelly Cootalot's rating, I entirely endorse this new system. Hurrah for the new system!

Can I suggest that an AGS Review Panellist rating for each game would be a nice addition eventually. That way players could guage their tastes against the reviewers. I find it useful to look at the reviewers' names on Just Adventure because I know that I don't share some of their tastes, so I can take their ratings with a pinch of salt.

[Pumaman]

I believe I found a minor bug: the "game length" pulldown is no longer available when submitting or editing a game entry.

Oh yeah sorry, I forgot to mention this.

We also decided that because everyone seemed to have their own opinion on what a "Medium-length" game was vs a "Full length" one, new games submitted from now on will not allow the author to set a length. Then, when the Review Panel reviews the game, having played it they will be in a good position to set the game length at that time.

Also, it allows "my first game"-type games to be moved into the Training Game category where the game authors may not allocate it there themselves.

[LimpingFish]

About Paul Quest...

The AGS Review Panel has left a comment about this game:
Extremely shoddy. Download links to RapidShare.

I really feel a little hurt. I understand the rating, but not the comment.

Apologies, that was only to serve as a note for the reviewers comment. The proper comment has now been added.

Can I suggest that an AGS Review Panellist rating for each game would be a nice addition eventually. That way players could guage their tastes against the reviewers.

To be honest, the original plan was to keep the rating panel anonymous. I'm not sure how knowing a reviewer's taste would somehow lessen the validity of their review, though. It certainly didn't influence their ratings.

[Radiant]

We also decided that because everyone seemed to have their own opinion on what a "Medium-length" game was vs a "Full length" one

Ah, that makes sense. People can always use the vote section to point out that "this game belongs in that other category".

[alkis21]

I'm curious, is the rating of Diamonds in the Rough based on the demo or the full game? I'm only asking because if it's the former, I will be happy to give you guys the full game for your review.

[jetxl]

Can I search games by date?

[Leon]

Wow, congratulations on this massive job. I know what it's like because I'm on my way playing them all as well. But I hunt the broken links and search beyond the DB.

That brings me to the following. Since there will be a panel judging the games and thus the pages are moderated, is it an idea to make the adding games to the database less voluntairily? With that I have the idea that  if a game is not added by the author within a week of completion/announcement, the game will be added by a mod. The password of the page will then be pm'ed to the author so he/she can update it to their liking.

This will result in the advantage that games left in the Completed Games Announcement, HOUR games, The MAGS competition or the OROW competition (or maybe any other in the future) are still added to the DB and thus creating a more complete overview of games. If the author doesn't want to change the entry, fine but it's still documented/registered and won't drown eventually in threads, maybe never to be dug up again.

It's just a thought...

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

No.  The database is a purely voluntary effort for people who want their games to be there.  We're not going to start forcibly adding games that people might not even necessarily want a large group of people to know about.  Voluntary also means they are signing on willingly for the user/judge ratings; adding a game without the author's knowledge would be a different issue.

[TwinMoon]

I think it's reasonable to assume that people who make an AGS game know about the database, so they consciously do not submit their game.
My first MAGS game isn't in the database, because I consider it a failed experiment.

[Radiant]

This will result in the advantage that games left in the Completed Games Announcement, HOUR games, The MAGS competition or the OROW competition (or maybe any other in the future)

MAGS has its own database which does include all MAGS games to date; Hour and OROW games are in the forum, which technically is also a database. RON also has its own database on its forum.

I'd like to have as complete a list as possible of AGS games here at bigbluecup, and I'd strongly encourage everybody to add their games to it; but if people for whatever reason don't feel like doing that, it's their choice.

[Akril15]

Great job -- the additional features definitely improve browsing the games section, and implementing the new rating system was a good idea as well.

[Leon]

We're not going to start forcibly adding games that people might not even necessarily want a large group of people to know about.

Maybe adding the options "Make only visible to members" or "Do not publish executable"?

adding a game without the author's knowledge would be a different issue.

I never said that. The author still has influence on it. The author will be send the password to update their page.

My first MAGS game isn't in the database, because I consider it a failed experiment.

You're fully entitled to that, I know. And I respect that. But I'd still like to know about it. I'd like to see how you progressed. And what you think of as 'failed' might not be by me. What people consider Joke games aren't to me and games I find hilarious, are drama to others. It's all a matter of interpretation and perception.

MAGS has its own database which does include all MAGS games to date

MAGS is in that respect the only really complete database because..... you're entered automatically (competing is entering). Why not apply that view onto the whole of AGS and say: publishing is adding to the DB?

Hour and OROW games are in the forum, which technically is also a database.

Speaking of the forum as techinically a database well.... yes but then the whole internet is a database. I don't want to go through all threads to find the game that got lost in publication. I want to find the games that I'm not aware of, not the games I know are there.

RON also has its own database on its forum.

And RON also has it's own DB and yes, these are also administred better but that's because it's part of the game, otherwise you wouldn't be part of the 'story' RON is about. (But when your game gets rejected you get a complete different discussion)

I completely understand what you're all saying and to some extend I agree. There should be freedom for the author. But what I'm having difficulties with is the administration and maintenance. The addition to the DB is based on voluntary grounds, there is minimal moderation and there's little maintenance. There are enties both in MAGS and in the games DB, or in RON and the games DB or there are games that are in neither. A lot of links don't work anymore and like said before, I think it's incomplete.

If things are that voluntary why aren't entries deleted once the links are down for a longer period of time? What will be the use of the page if the link doesn't work (anymore)?

You must all understand that I see a huge difference in administering the publication of a game and the possibility to play/download. Sure, the optimal situation would be both but if the author doesn't want me to play his game that's fine, that's his choice. Then I should have downloaded the game when it was available. But at least I know the existence of the game and I can contact the author about it. See it as publishing books. You might choose not to print any more issues, but you can't say to people: "I want my book back". The bookshop can still tell me that you wrote it once and you're not printing it anymore. Then that's my bad luck. Then I can only ask around or contact the author if he's still got a copy (if I'm that desperate). And if I don't like the entry in the DB, I won't bother. But at least I knew of it's existence.

[Radiant]

If things are that voluntary why aren't entries deleted once the links are down for a longer period of time? What will be the use of the page if the link doesn't work (anymore)?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there is an ongoing effort to locate games with dysfunctional links, and host them on americangirlscouts.org. That might help.

According to the database, there's only 26 games with no functional download. (edit) Wait, I can't count. Make that 152 (26 of which have a rating of 2+)

(edit) speaking of which, perhaps somebody from the rating team can post a list of all games that lack downloads in the forum, then the community can probably locate half of those instantly on their hard drives?

[Leon]

I believe there is an ongoing effort to locate games with dysfunctional links, and host them on americangirlscouts.org. That might help.

That would be an improvement, and only part of the discussion. The main object here is to create a database with all published games. With monitored links. If the author doesn't want to publish his/her game, state so on the page. If they don't mind, the link should be maintained and monitored. Moving the executable to a separate host for easier and better control would even improve it more. [edit] But when you do that, the author loses control.

Make that 152

That's more than 15%. Quite high I think. And then I even included the demo's and the non-adventure games.

[edit]

(edit) speaking of which, perhaps somebody from the rating team can post a list of all games that lack downloads in the forum, then the community can probably locate half of those instantly on their hard drives?

Aren't you then doing exactly what I'm suggesting? Keeping track and control over published games? It's pretty much like moderating your DB.

[TwinMoon]

You're fully entitled to that, I know. And I respect that. But I'd still like to know about it. I'd like to see how you progressed. And what you think of as 'failed' might not be by me. What people consider Joke games aren't to me and games I find hilarious, are drama to others. It's all a matter of interpretation and perception.

There's a difference between a bad game and a joke game.
Grundislav's "Porn Quest" might arguably be a bad game (only one puzzle) but it's a great joke game (the joke being that it ends when you get the porn).
However, you convinced me. I'll put it in the database, mentioning I consider it a failed project.

(edit) speaking of which, perhaps somebody from the rating team can post a list of all games that lack downloads in the forum, then the community can probably locate half of those instantly on their hard drives?

Aren't you then doing exactly what I'm suggesting? Keeping track and control over published games? It's pretty much like moderating your DB.

It's more cleaning up the DB. Those games were initially added to the DB. And I second Radiant's idea. Post the games with broken links in the forum. It's no use having games with broken links in the DB.