Main Character revamp, advice requested

[poc301]

So in working on the female spriteset from the past few days, I have learned quite a few things about drawing characters..

This made me go back and revisit the main character artwork, to try and make him a little nicer for my upcoming Episode 3.

I have an OLD and NEW in the image below, and would like some critique, and maybe some ideas on how I can make it fit better into the backgrounds of my game.  One of the comments I get consistently from people are the way the art feel of the background (rendered photo-realistic) doesn't mesh well with the pixel-art sprites for the characters.  For game 3 I am trying to fix this, but I REALLY like the way the backgrounds look, so I don't want to change it up.  I was thinking about running the pixel art through the same conversion/filter that I run the background images through, to see if it works well, and I have attached the screenshow below.

I am really getting into this art stuff, so any help on making myself better will be appreciated!



This shows my old character sprite from Episode 2, marked OLD, alongside my new redesign, marked NEW.

The new one has re-done hands which look less blobby, broader shoulders, closer arms to the torso, closer legs, and a turned-out foot to make it look more casual.  I also adjusted the look of the collar on the jacket and redid a bit of the shading on it.




This image shows my 2 images on a background from my new game.  I sort of like the way the pixel art looks on the photo-realistic backgrounds, but I get negative feedback about it saying things like it takes away from emersion and it doesn't fit.  I want to have as good of a game as possible..




This is the same set as above, but run through the conversion filter I use for my backgrounds.




This is that set on the same background.


Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Bill

[Ghost]

The new pose look very, very stiff, especially compared to the old one- with the arms hanging like that it's really a step backwards. He looks like locked in a shrug, which could be softened by lowering his shoulders a little. Also, avoid symmetry: Bend one arm a litte, let him have one hand in his pocket, whatever.

The hands come over very small too- place your hand against your face, it is usually the same size (One "artist's rule of thumb is that palm plus fingers should be the size of a face, from eyebrows to chin). The new version does a good job in fleshing out details (fingers, crisper shading), so that's a good thing.

I don't mind the mix of realistic backgrounds a clean pixel-pushed sprites at all, since you're going for a realistic look it doesn't clash too much.

All this is not meant to sound harsh, you are up to a decent sprite here, so I hope you can work with my suggestions.

[poc301]

Thanks so much for the critique!  I took your pointers, and modified the new one a bit.  I dropped the shoulders some, and put a hand in the pocket, also making the other hand proportionate.  I was going to make one of the knees bent slightly, but I didn't know how to do that without the other leg looking too long.  Any pointers for that?  Or other tips?



Thanks again!

Bill

[Ghost]

Already looks much better in my opinion, well done! As for the "leg bent", that is indeed tricky. I took the liberty to take three low-res characters with quite unique poses to give you some pointers.


(Ravi from "Sphinx" / Guybrush from "MI" / Indiana Jones from FOA)

The feet more or less stay on the same horizontal line and simply move outward, and the curve of the leg follows that movement. Since your character has pretty dark clothes you won't be able to play much wth light/shadow, but that shouldn't matter.

Not how these characters appear hardly "stiff" at all, even though these are their standing frames. Especially the leftmost one (Ravi from "Sphinx") has a lot of little curves that make his pose dynamic, while your character is basically a straight tube. Soften that outline and make it a bit more dynamic. It's hard; I had several people showing me how to do it when I did my first spritework, but since you're going hi-res, you have a lot of pixels to use and *can* achieve great results that might even look smoother than in low-res.

[poc301]

Very helpful, thanks!  I feel like I am learning so much with this stuff.  Its kinda fun

Here is my latest revamp.  Critique, comments and ideas on how I might be able to make it better?  I am afraid the jeans might still be a little bit tube-ish, or square..  I tried making part slimmer, and pulling some in around the knee, but it didn't look right.

edit: In seeing it, its almost like the left leg (the character's right leg) is too thick.  But I measured and it is the same amount of pixels across until the bottom where the jean material bunches up some..



Thanks again!

-Bill

[zabnat]

edit: In seeing it, its almost like the left leg (the character's right leg) is too thick.  But I measured and it is the same amount of pixels across until the bottom where the jean material bunches up some..

You measured wrong. I just measured the thickness of the leg at knee height and the other leg was 15 pixels and the other one was 17,5 pixels. Also the pose doesn't look too relaxed since he's leaning heavily. You have chosen high resolution so you should use it also. Try to define the shape of the leg (look up some anatomy references) and then lay the jeans on top of that shape.

[rbaleksandar]

That guy is saying: "You wanna piece of me, boy?" 

Don't like the combination character-background.

[poc301]

Don't like the combination character-background.

I will rework the sprite some more today and post another version.

As for not liking the character-background combo, I have found that people either like it or don't (which is pretty normal, I guess lol). 

I am wondering if a more digitized photorealistic character would be better.  But then I also like the look of the pixel art characters on the worked photorealistic backgrounds..  I dunno..

-Bill

[Hudders]

What's the requirement for the characters to move? I could see the game working with static characters or characters that move in a limited way, (single frame change of positions, etc), using photographs of people rather than hand-drawn sprites.

I'm thinking kind of like the CSI games; they have photo-realistic backgrounds and minimal character movement, (nobody walks anywhere - animation is limited to speaking and small movements of the hands and arms). Of course, these are presented from the point of view of the player character, but I can easily see it working just as well with the player in the frame, shown from a third person perspective.

One problem if you go down this route though, of course, would be the requirement to source photographs of the same actors in subtley different positions, including the frames necessary to create a talking animation. Probably too much of an expense, (although, saying that, you could use portraits for dialogue so as to dispense with the talking animation alltogether).

[poc301]

What's the requirement for the characters to move? I could see the game working with static characters or characters that move in a limited way, (single frame change of positions, etc), using photographs of people rather than hand-drawn sprites.

I'm thinking kind of like the CSI games; they have photo-realistic backgrounds and minimal character movement, (nobody walks anywhere - animation is limited to speaking and small movements of the hands and arms). Of course, these are presented from the point of view of the player character, but I can easily see it working just as well with the player in the frame, shown from a third person perspective.

One problem if you go down this route though, of course, would be the requirement to source photographs of the same actors in subtley different positions, including the frames necessary to create a talking animation. Probably too much of an expense, (although, saying that, you could use portraits for dialogue so as to dispense with the talking animation alltogether).

Its a full-moving game..  Animations, walking, etc.   I COULD change the backgrounds up to be hand drawn stuff, but I rather suck at that, and I have 90% of the backgrounds for my games in place and ready to go.  So I'd essentially be scrapping the project.

Plus, like I said, I kinda like the feel of the 'enhanced' photo backgrounds with the sprite characters..  I dunno..

-Bill

[rbaleksandar]

As for not liking the character-background combo, I have found that people either like it or don't (which is pretty normal, I guess lol). 

  What I'm talking about here isn't personal opinion mixed with feelings I'm talking about the art itself. It's like taking a movie and put a cartoon character in there without any work done to mix them both good. The style that you use for your background is totally differen from the (pixel)-art you're using to make your character. Either pixelize the background or change the character. Another way to do the trick is to stick to Hudders's suggestion. It's not necessary to make hand-drawn backgrounds. You can always make some kind of collage with photos and put a pixel-character. I've seen this many times and it looks really great. So better change the background in your case and not the character. Don't make it so washed up...But hey - it's your game after all Do whatever you want and like to.

[poc301]

  What I'm talking about here isn't personal opinion mixed with feelings I'm talking about the art itself. It's like taking a movie and put a cartoon character in there without any work done to mix them both good. The style that you use for your background is totally differen from the (pixel)-art you're using to make your character. Either pixelize the background or change the character. Another way to do the trick is to stick to Hudders's suggestion. It's not necessary to make hand-drawn backgrounds. You can always make some kind of collage with photos and put a pixel-character. I've seen this many times and it looks really great. So better change the background in your case and not the character. Don't make it so washed up...But hey - it's your game after all Do whatever you want and like to.

I understand/appreciate the difference between the 2 styles, and I completely do like the analogy you made about movies with cartoon characters in them.  I really don't want to do hudder's suggestion, since I like the animation, movement of the characters.  I kind of dislike games where the characters just move poses periodically, and don't want my game to be like that.

What did you mean by "collage with photos and put a pixel character"?  Also, by "don't make it so washed up", what do you mean?  The decolorization? 

I really like the pixel characters I've developed over the past few weeks, and definitely want to keep them.  Maybe I will work on pixelizing the backgrounds..  Take my existing BGs and work them over into pixel format or something..  I dunno..

But all things aside, here is another take on the main character standing image.  I made him lean a bit less, and trimmed/evened out the legs some.  Thoughts?



Thanks,

Bill

[rbaleksandar]

What did you mean by "collage with photos and put a pixel character"?  Also, by "don't make it so washed up", what do you mean?  The decolorization? 

Here's a very good tutorial: http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=36985.0
Yes, pixelizing the background would be nice (IF you're not going to use photos and stuff for backgrounds).

Your last edit is much better Could work on the right hand a little bit 'cause it seems it has more elbow-joints than usual

[poc301]

What did you mean by "collage with photos and put a pixel character"?  Also, by "don't make it so washed up", what do you mean?  The decolorization? 

Here's a very good tutorial: http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=36985.0
Yes, pixelizing the background would be nice (IF you're not going to use photos and stuff for backgrounds).

Your last edit is much better Could work on the right hand a little bit 'cause it seems it has more elbow-joints than usual

Hahaha, the elbow joint comment made me literally laugh out loud   I will work on that.  I am also checking out the tutorial.  Thanks much!

-Bill

[Ookki]

I think the last edit looks much much improved from the first sprite. However I think his neck is a little off. Kinda like he'd spent a little too much time on computer. 

[redspark]

Have you ever used a 3D program?  There is one called DAZ Studio that is free.  DAZ also has some free models that you can download.  If you pose them and render them to a bitmap, you can paint your character over them and you would have perfect posing everytime.

Of course, if you wanted to do photo realistic characters with DAZ, you could do that too.  But it costs money to purchase new characters and morphs.

[poc301]

I have tinkered with Blender, so I could use that to render out some characters...

I don't know..

I tried converting the hotel background to pixel based art by tracing/drawing, but I have no clue how to go about shading the thing..

I don't know what I am going to do..

ORIGINAL:



PIXEL BASED:


I tried doing shading based off light sources, but it was all just a bunch of lighter and darker overlapping circles from the brush tool..  I dunno..



-Bill

[markbilly]

Even if you just kept the basic shapes, it looks miles better than the edited photo... That is definitely a step in the right direction...

EDIT: Just carry on with the shadows and colours like I have - literally just copying from the picture, which means you don't even have to work out where the shadows go. To be honest, I ran out of patience...

[rbaleksandar]

If you make it a little bit more choppy and add a retro-looking 3d character, it will look like Alone in the dark 1 Cool
markbilly, I'm sure he'll work on the shades and shapes more. This is just the first drawing

[Kastchey]

I came up with this lame photo manipulation.
And after tormenting the photo a bit more, this.
Then the photo pleaded for mercy so I stopped.