Google Wave

[Darth Mandarb]

Then i thought about how would this make a revolution in the glorious art of spam.
I don't like it so much anymore.

Actually I see it as the perfect way to get rid of spam.

This isn't an upgrade to email.  It's an entirely new electronic communication medium and if there is one thing Google knows how to do it's prevent spam.  In the many years I've been using Gmail I can count on one (maybe two) hands the number of Spam emails that have actually made it into my inbox.  This is the next [r]evolution.  I am no longer wondering why Gmail never came out of BETA.

The nay-saying new technology bandwagon is fun and easy to jump on ... but I really think this thing is going to be huge.  If I'm wrong I'll admit it but I'm not worried about being wrong on this one.

[InCreator]

I don't mean so much nigerian "business offers" here but amount of reading to do overall.

But It's quite personal on my case too, over years, I grew somewhat tired of the internet. I get average of 20 e-mails a day, not counting IM, forum reading, etc.

Anything that will make "communication easier and quicker than ever" means usually simply more communication. Sounds fun and modern yeah. But imagine if it was still 1800's and you simply got all of this by snail mail. 20 letters a day?
Doesn't sound very fun, yet we're somewhat used to it electronically, and consider this normal.

I'm kind of running out of excuses to actually leave the house...

[Akatosh]

Actually I see it as the perfect way to get rid of spam.

This isn't an upgrade to email.  It's an entirely new electronic communication medium and if there is one thing Google knows how to do it's prevent spam.  In the many years I've been using Gmail I can count on one (maybe two) hands the number of Spam emails that have actually made it into my inbox.  This is the next [r]evolution.  I am no longer wondering why Gmail never came out of BETA.

I envy your boundless optimism. If this really becomes the Next Big Thing (TM) and manages to reach its lofty goal - eclipsing all other means of communication, basically - do you really think Google can keep outsmarting spammers? If there's money involved, and if the system has been stated to be "absolutely immune to attacks", somebody will find a way to circumvent it - just look at captchas. Right now, we're not seeing too much spam because there's too many different systems that each require their own spamming methods, security measure cirumventions etc. Wave would change that, were it to become common enough. Google has some good programmers, but I doubt they'll manage to stay ahead of the spammers for long.

Plus, don't forget that Google "spams" ads, too. That's how they earn their money.

As I said, maybe I'm just a grumpy old war veteran already (at age 18 no less ), but I don't think this is the Second Coming it's made out to be.

/EDIT: Plus, I find it pretty funny how Google is starting to resemble early Microsoft. Pretty much total hegemony over an important market, to the point that the product is becoming synonymous with the product category? Check. Hiring young talent, especially programmers? Check. Privacy concerns don't even make the priority list? Check. Ambitions to revolutionise entire markets, even outside the "core"? Check. Attacking established companies with similar-but-slightly-changed products? Check. Seriously, outside of PR (and, well, products), they're hardly different.

[Mr Jake]

Wave would change that, were it to become common enough. Google has some good programmers, but I doubt they'll manage to stay ahead of the spammers for long.

Well, part of the point isn't that they're making some big website for everyone to use - they are making this an open protocol which developers can go and make their own wave-like systems (not just embedding from the "official" google wave system).  Plus, most of google's systems (including translating, filtering etc) work by statistics, so a large number of people using their service means a large amount of data which means further refined systems.  I think they might have a chance against spam - unless, heaven forbid, spam bots become coherent - then we're all screwed.

Plus, don't forget that Google "spams" ads, too. That's how they earn their money.

Yeah small text adverts annoy the crap out of me too.

As I said, maybe I'm just a grumpy old war veteran already (at age 18 no less )

/EDIT: Plus, I find it pretty funny how Google is starting to resemble early Microsoft. Pretty much total hegemony over an important market, to the point that the product is becoming synonymous with the product category? Check. Hiring young talent, especially programmers? Check. Privacy concerns don't even make the priority list? Check. Ambitions to revolutionise entire markets, even outside the "core"? Check. Attacking established companies with similar-but-slightly-changed products? Check. Seriously, outside of PR (and, well, products), they're hardly different.

Hiring promising employees, going for a market share? Its almost like its a business!

[Andail]

I'm getting gradually less intrigued by the brand new communication/networking systems. It's like everyone has this urge to be online everywhere, all the time, to read and share everything at once, to be in perpetual contact with everyone you know, and everyone they know, and get updated in real time about everyone's opinions and moods and states and emoticons or whatnot.

Is it really our ambition to develop a hive mind? Is that our destiny as humans?

Leave your laptop at home, turn off your mobile phone and go for a long solitary walk. It's bound to do you good.

[Akatosh]

Well, part of the point isn't that they're making some big website for everyone to use - they are making this an open protocol which developers can go and make their own wave-like systems (not just embedding from the "official" google wave system).  Plus, most of google's systems (including translating, filtering etc) work by statistics, so a large number of people using their service means a large amount of data which means further refined systems.  I think they might have a chance against spam - unless, heaven forbid, spam bots become coherent - then we're all screwed.

That's certainly true, but more people using their service and the additional data generated ALSO mean more incentive to spy and/or spam the hell out of said people. We'll see who comes out on top. And yeah, if spambots ever manage to get beyond "G€T cH€@p vi4gr4 todey!!!!", it'll be the end of the human race.

Yeah small text adverts annoy the crap out of me too.

Heh. Yeah, I should've probably clarified this... they're already collecting and using data about people, and running most of your communications over Google would drastically increase the ways they could collect data about you, which was my main qualm about this. This may or may not be related to my "get off my lawn / private data files" complex.

Hiring promising employees, going for a market share? Its almost like its a business!

I know! It must be a conspiracy!! GET TO THE FALLOUT SHELTERS!!!

Seriously, though. What I was trying to point out was that I think people are being way too optimistic about Google, the quality of their products and their security measures / the exploitability of the collected data right now. Good track record nonwithstanding, they've got precisely zero experience with something like this. It's not a question about whether there will be bugs and security breaches in there - the question is how bad they'll be.

[InCreator]

I actually think that there's more spam than actual internet already.

I use Firefox with NoScript addon.

Random wepage, I allow main domain to run scripts. Funny, but It's always at least 3-4 domains/servers that are DENIED to do this.
Putting this in simple words, I am forced to cripple my browser down to 10-20% to surf internet. "Pure" pages like adventuregamestudio.co.uk (not running any other "outer" services) are getting really rare.

Almost every damn page comes with stats.google, googlesyndication  (yeah, GOOGLE), revsci.net, atdmt, geminus.pl, doubleclick.net, and so on - ad- and stats-trackers. Those darned things slow down loading, display ads, sniff around and trace every virtual step.

What google (or anyone else) should build, was a browser that filters all this digital pile of shit and leave only pure, old good internet. This I would praise.

[Oliwerko]

Andail, you definitely have a point here and I agree with it.

It's a part of the busy lifestyle people nowadays live. We count time in seconds, not days like people in the past used to. That's one of the reasons we don't have as much time to meet people as we would like, thus we enjoy electronical communication.
I think it's true that it's a bit sick to substitute personal contact, going out and nature with staying in front of your screen though.

Anyway, why do I enjoy these communication forms? Because if I couldn't, I would stay in touch only with few people, it would be more difficult to stay in touch with them and organize events too. Internet really helps me to do this. I would miss very much of good time with great people if it wasn't for these communication forms.

[Mr Jake]

I'm getting gradually less intrigued by the brand new communication/networking systems. It's like everyone has this urge to be online everywhere, all the time, to read and share everything at once, to be in perpetual contact with everyone you know, and everyone they know, and get updated in real time about everyone's opinions and moods and states and emoticons or whatnot.

Is it really our ambition to develop a hive mind? Is that our destiny as humans?

Leave your laptop at home, turn off your mobile phone and go for a long solitary walk. It's bound to do you good.

Yeah Im not a great fan of the simple status sharing things (such as twitter, well, as used by some people) but things like facebook which allow you to keep it touch with people (in a greater interactive means than simple email - and Im mostly refer to people its not practical to call), not to mention other things such as video and photo sharing etc, definitely have a place, in my opinion.

Some people take it too far, but it definitely has a place.

That's certainly true, but more people using their service and the additional data generated ALSO mean more incentive to spy and/or spam the hell out of said people. We'll see who comes out on top. And yeah, if spambots ever manage to get beyond "Gâ,¬T cHâ,¬@p vi4gr4 todey!!!!", it'll be the end of the human race.

At the same time, more spam means more training material which means less spam slipping through.  The thing with a filter like this is that although a bot could maybe slip through by making spam messages which are posts significantly different messages it soon  I imagine it would soon become too much hassle to create, tweek and change the bots.

I'm not saying nothing will slip through, I don't think it will be the spam epidemic you are thinking of though

Heh. Yeah, I should've probably clarified this... they're already collecting and using data about people, and running most of your communications over Google would drastically increase the ways they could collect data about you, which was my main qualm about this. This may or may not be related to my "get off my lawn / private data files" complex.

Hehe, I know I was just being facetious .  I personally have no qualm about my data being collected as long as its going to be used reasonably (which I so far trust Google to do,  could be misguided or whatever).  And I include targetting their advertising to be reasonable use - if Im going to have adverts I'd rather have adverts Im going to be interested in!

At the same time I can understand the "get off my datas!" mindset.

Seriously, though. What I was trying to point out was that I think people are being way too optimistic about Google, the quality of their products and their security measures / the exploitability of the collected data right now. Good track record nonwithstanding, they've got precisely zero experience with something like this. It's not a question about whether there will be bugs and security breaches in there - the question is how bad they'll be.

Well, gmail is quite large and although extremely simplified version of what wave is presenting I think it counts.  Also they have a lot of experience with developing APIs so I think we can trust them there, plus, you said it yourself... They hire a lot of bright (well, you said young - but they dont just hire anyone!) people to work for them.  The team behind Wave seem to have a lot of experience also.

Everything has the potential for security holes, I think that enough thought will go into this that they will be kept to a minimum though - this isn't just some beginners slapping google's name onto their product.

[Ishmael]

So far Hotspot's been basically writing down my thoughts on the matter.

I don't really mind Google ads -- as long as the website author positions them somewhere smart -- as they're just a bit of text. On the other hand about everything else, all the blinking, bandwidth consuming huge banners which at worst cases play unprompted sounds are really not amusing or interesting at all.

[Darth Mandarb]

I'm getting gradually less intrigued by the brand new communication/networking systems. It's like everyone has this urge to be online everywhere, all the time, to read and share everything at once, to be in perpetual contact with everyone you know, and everyone they know, and get updated in real time about everyone's opinions and moods and states and emoticons or whatnot.

Amen!  While I admit I am a fan of facebook (it's really nice to be able to keep in touch (or reconnect) with old friends I've not seen in years I despise the constant status updates.  So'n So is brushing her teeth ... So 'n So is done brushing her teeth and is headed to work ... So 'n So is at work ... So 'n So is working ...

Enough already!!

As for Google Wave ... as I stated earlier, anytime a company starts getting "big" (as somebody in here already hinted at Google reminding them of Microsoft) I think it's natural for a lot of people to jump instantly on the "must be bad!  I don't trust it and I don't like it" band-wagon.  That's fine.  To each their own.

If the final product is anything like the demo I watched I'll gladly use it and enjoy it.

Please undestand I'm not accusing anybody in here of jumping on that bandwagon (though it does seem likely) ... every person is entitled to like or dislike things as they choose and it's not my place to try to convince them otherwise.  I haven't used Google Wave, I might dislike it when I do use it (doubt it) but from what I've seen it looks shiny.

[m0ds]

I'm getting gradually less intrigued by the brand new communication/networking systems. It's like everyone has this urge to be online everywhere, all the time, to read and share everything at once, to be in perpetual contact with everyone you know, and everyone they know, and get updated in real time about everyone's opinions and moods and states and emoticons or whatnot.

Is it really our ambition to develop a hive mind? Is that our destiny as humans?

Leave your laptop at home, turn off your mobile phone and go for a long solitary walk. It's bound to do you good.

Well said!

I'm all for a universal one-ness, but not via the internet.

[Mr Flibble]

I agree with that, mostly because internet hiveminding would be to spirital one-ness as watching free porn previews is to sexual intercourse.

[DeviantGent]

watching free porn previews is to sexual intercourse.

There's a difference? 

[m0ds]

Yes, one lasts 15 seconds, the other 20.

[monkey0506]

Yes, there's the 5 second "buffering" period on one of them.

[Mr Jake]

Sigh when threads are turned into "lol porn lol".

[Peder 🚀]

Hiring young talent, especially programmers? Check.

I cant say I thought Lars looked that young..... neither did his brother...

Also I still think this is going to end up being something good!