Designing a Jump'n Run: Consider my survey

[abstauber]

I'm currently spending some time in creating a jump'n run engine in AGS. Right now I'm at a spot where I have to decide the direction where to go with this:

Make it like 1213, Prince of Persia or like Mario...  I want as much of you enjoying this as possible, that's why I've created this handy survey:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dG9QQ1JVSWp2NUF2NC1fTUZ5V0hVTFE6MQ


It would be really cool if you could take your time and fill it out these 9 tiny questions.

Thanks guys!


@Andail Thanks for showing me this great new gDocs feature

[Pixelton]

I love this genre and I think over standard adventure games, the run and jump, action genre like Flashback, Another World and the Prince of Persia series are the kind of games I'd really like to make, I just don't have the scripting know-how to produce them and alot of people I've asked about this have told me it's alot of work on the code side of things.

I've submitted my thoughts and would love to see this come to fruition, on a side note if you need some placeholder artwork for an example demo (abit like the demo game that comes with AGS) then please let me know as I'd love to help; I'd do anything to support this really and get it into circulation (I think I even have some prince of persia style sprites I've made for something...I'm not sure what now).

I did add in the survey that I think Xbox style achievements would be great too for replay value and as a nice kind of point system.

I'll be watching this

[tzachs]

I can see a lot of surveys in the future of this forum  

Are you making a module of this? Because if you do, then the best thing (although a lot more work) would be to allow for more than one type of platform...

[Babar]

You need to play more platformers, Abs!


You missed out Abuse! I want mouse-controlled directional shootery!
And a whip! To swing on protuding poles and stuff.
And a sword as well. A sword is necessary .
And FAST-PACED action. I really, really, really, love when you are able to (theoretically) run through and complete a level in a full-tilt run.
And ninja styled wall-jumpery .

* Babar notices an excess of , but realises he really likes platformers

[Calin Leafshade]

I've completed the survey.

I'm very much in the 1213 camp. I thought 1213 was truly brilliant and anything you make should definitely incorporate story a great deal.

To make a run and jump you need either a great platform engine which is super fun (like N+, wall jumps, slides and so on) or you need to make it tense and interesting like 1213. I think mixing the 2 ideas would be a mistake.

[Babar]

Really? Why?

Abuse was an example with an interesting story, while still being fast-paced (admittedly not as involving as something like Blackthrone or 1213, I guess, but still).

I realise that it wasn´t done very often -Flashback was generally slow-paced (until he picked up momentum and started running ), but had an involving story, Sonic was fast-paced, but almost had no story to speak of, etc- but that doesn´t automatically mean it would be a bad idea, would it?

[Pixelton]

I agree with Calin in that you should choose a path and design the module or AGS platformer engine towards that goal rather than trying to fill your plate with too many platformer concepts. For me AGS is a fanatastic tool for creating a story driven adventure game so why not develope of platformer that works along the same lines.

I also played 1213 and while I think it had a few control issues ultimatly it did what it set out to do, throw the player into a really interesting world with lots of shooting and climbing...and still felt like an adventure game. 

Well...thats my two cents.

[Arboris]

I really enjoy the genre. Games like commander keen, earthworm jim or metal slug are great. And as with most platformers, the make or break for me is how well it plays. no lag, and spot on controls are quite important, aswell as well defined rules (eg. Cleary defined platforms where you can jump on)

I also came across this one recently, it's hard as nails

Bunny must die gameplay video

it's free to download here, if you're interested.

[Wyz]

Well, this is an interesting development
I'd love to see a (decent) platform engine for AGS. In fact I tried to make one a little while back, but well I ran short of time.
It started out in a Sprite jam for platform enemies.



Oh well, I might pick it up some day if there was an engine. I've got some material for testing though.

I was wondering, will it be tile based or something else?

[discordance]

Best platformer ever: CAVE STORY. IT combines a decent (and surprisingly involving) story with some of the most frantic and exhilarating action you have ever experienced. And it's freeware.

[blueskirt]

It's the survey season!

The realistic platforming in Prince Of Persia was fine since enemies were fought with swords, but in games like Flashback, 1213, Blackthorne or Rocketbirds, where enemies are fought with guns, the whole realistic platformer thing somewhat goes to the trash can for me. The second guns and bullets are introduced, I wanna be able to run, jump and dash to avoid monsters and bullets, not just crouch/shoot/roll my enemies to death like in Flashback. When it comes to realistic run and gun platformers, I pick Super Metroid, Iji or Abuse over Flashback any day of the week.

[Mehrdad]

VERY GOOD , EXCELLENT

Nice and good job abstauber .
Style: Another world - Flashback - Prince of Persia
Multi rooms(fade and detect between rooms).no scroller.
real dynamic movement player for jumps,run ,grab ledge, climb.(Flashback-Another world).no super mario
cinematic for collision with enemies(Another world).no shoots in up

I'm very glad for this news.I can not wait for release.....can you release betea?
Thanks again abstauber

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

1213 was a terrible, terrible example of the platform genre with almost broken gameplay that was a chore to even deal with.  I'm sure the goal here is to reference AGS games that have 'already done it' but 1213 is the worst one you could look to for inspiration.  The Platformerius demo did such a superior job of handling platforming and yet people rarely even recognize it.  You don't want to bog down the player with fighting a bad control scheme, that's #1 for making a good platformer.  The controls must feel right and the jumps tight and effective, if unrealistic.  We already concede that no one can jump like they do in the good platformers .  I would definitely like to see more 'substance' in a platformer, and no, I don't think mario hopping on Yoshi to kill enemies in a different way is substance.  NPCs you can interact with, rooms you can interact with (Flashback, Impossible Mission) would push it beyond mindless action into something with broader appeal, imo.  I recently played a Game Maker platform rpg that included all of these things and it was very fun to play.  Pity it was so short ;(.

[ShiverMeSideways]

I forgot to mention Iji in my survey, that was such an awesome platformer. It's available for free, just google it. I agree that the Flashback/1213 way of doing things is just such a flow-breaker... You move quite sluggish and the action element is so boring. I'd rather have a fast-paced platformer But I'm very much in favour of implementing as many diverse elements as possible! Point'n'click section? Yes please. Minigames? Hell yeah! Story elements? Rawrzorz!

I kind of hate that Final Fantasy way of telling story and dialogue, like Iji had, so I'd rather you'd have cutscenes and dialogue... Just the storytelling capability of adventure games mixed with the fast-paced action of platformers seems a very interesting prospect.

Also, I want to help too with music.

[Pixelton]

well I've always been a wan of wonder boy, had everything you wanted, NPC's, shops and special items, lots of monsters, it had that mario style gameplay but a little slowed down....or even Fantatic Dizzy.

[abstauber]

Wow, thanks for this great response so far!

I'm already very glad that I've started this, some of the results are quite surprising. Almost made a game which nobody would like

@Mark Borg
Thanks for the offer! The current state of the engine is already quite playable, so it's too late to turn back So no worries. I also have a concept "hero" but he has very basic movement frames - so if you have those Prince of Persia style animations handy, I'll be glad to use them.

@tzachs
Module yes, public later As always, releasing a good module also means writing good documentation and having a sane concept. We'll see how it is when it's done. I'm already at 3k lines of code and there are still some key features missing.

@Babar
Abuse..! I totally forgot about it - I had a shareware version ages ago, but I didn't have the patience to even finish the first level But those other ideas a tempting - let's see what I'm able to reproduce

@Calin Leafshade
That's why I've started this survey    But I agree with Babar here: the story Super Mario had to offer way too cheesy for me to keep on playing it. "Sorry Mario but the princess is in another castle" errm... On the other hand "Heart of Darkness" was awesome and fast paced... even though it wasn't a side scroller.

@Wyz
It's tile based. Thanks to dkh and Jim Reed who "donated" me some code

@discordance
Never tried it, but downloading as I'm typing

@blueskirt
Well it definately won't be a run and gun. Simply because the AI would be a bit too heavy for me to write. Stealth is quite easy but teaching those guys to hunt and jump over ledges.. Argh!

@MEHRDAD
I'm afraid you wouldn't be too happy with it at the current stage as it's a scrolling and tile based. And currently even the animations are like in Super Mario - but the survey already tells me to rethink that

@ProgZmax
No worries. I only take 1213 as a reference for great impact and story telling (at least the first level where you had to climb on this injection was awesome). Also it's quite popular despite it's broken controls.
As platformerius - despite it's graphics I think it sucks too. The controls are really annoying (as well as collision detection)
Calin did a really better job in MariVania (or whatever the name was), as well as dkh did with Revelation.

@ShiverMeSideways
Iji looks really interesting, just like a fast paced Flashback. I can't watch the trailer on youtube anymore or I loose the motivation to write something on my own

@Arboris:
Bunny must die comes pretty close to what I had in mind. Of course except all those cool particle effects


All your responses give me a lot to think of. It doesn't seem like a simple choice between Mario or Flashback, what a bummer

[Wonkyth]

I'd avoid Mario type games, as there isn't really much that can be added to what is already available.
Abuse = Good.

[abstauber]

 :'(




I'm just glad that I haven't asked any later.

and btw. yes, that's an actual in-game shot

[Pixelton]

That looks really nice man, you can tell by that simple screengrab that there is potential.

[Arboris]

that's looking good. love the ground tiles