The Matrix - POST ALL MATRIX-RELATED DISCUSSION HERE

[DGMacphee]

I forgot we hada merge button on the forum, so I'll merge the two topics together thread.

However, this has happened twice so far, so I'm going to clearly label the other thread.

In future, please post all matrix stuff here.

[remixor]

The Matrix doesn't seem to be much of a casual, sit-down and relax movie. You have to get into it. You have to pay close attention.
That's why some people love the movies, while others, more casual movie watchers, hate them. Either way, you gotta love those special effects.

I disagree with just about every thing you said in that post.  I am most definitely not a casual movie watcher, and I thought the movie was quite stupid.  The more I pay attention to it and think about it, the stupider I think it is.  The best way to enjoy that movie is not to read too deeply into it and to just enjoy the action.  However, I didn't love those special effects.  Some of them were quite impressive, but a lot of them were really cheesy, and I found most of the action scenes boring.
I'm not going to go into too much detail about why I didn't like this movie, since we've had another extensive thread about it, but suffice to say I'm not thrilled I spent 9 bucks on it.

[MrColossal]

The Matrix is just for certain people, not for everyone... For people that like to pick apart every little detail in a film just for the sake of being cynical bastards, and the people that don't want to put any effort into trying to understand something in a film,  don't like these films..

BAH! trying to ignore the foolishness i suggest you stop being so sensitive about a movie you like. people like movies people hate movies, you come to this realization at the end of this post, no need to generalize

tell me how i am cynical cause i'm asking questions about a movie?

People that watch films because they liked to be entertained and people that like to watch something different than Hollywood cookie-cutter garbage

ok, this is also silly. matrix and matrix 2 are not Russian Ark or George Washington or Storytelling or Kandahar [ugh] or anything like that. you tell me how matrix1 and 2 are so different from XXX or James Bond and i will personally fellate you for an hour and a half.

((I blame that on stupid copy-cats of Bullet Time))

also, there was "bullet time" years before matrix, it was even in a music video and done with polaroids

And they also could've done without the damn franchising with Powerade and shit.. But I'm guessing Warner's lawyers made them do it.) Nontheless, I like the Matrix films, and I always will..

who was forcing anyone to liscence? i haven't seen the wachowski brothers [who don't even own the matrix anymore] crying foul of it anywhere. if they could have liscenced matrix 1 they would have. every holywood movie is filled with ads ads ads and as many independent movie is filled with as many ads as they can get their hands on cause it pays for the movie's cost.

Some people will hate/dislike the movies, and always will.. This is how the world works my friends...

and there we go, some people hate movies, some people love movies and some people like a movie but have problems with it. nothing wrong with that. it's people who are extremes on both ends that are the problems, at least for me.

bah whatever

[Las Naranjas]

The Matrix is cookie cutter rubbish, with stock ontological paradoxes and the feeling of depth without substance.

hey! It's just like Novo!

[Trapezoid]

Las feels strongly about something? Weird

[TheYak]

Las doesn't FEEL strongly about it, he posted strongly about it.  Haven't you learned?

Anyway, I hafta agree with one thing.  To say that the Matrix II isn't Hollywood cookie-cutter garbage is a tad contradictory.  One of the film industry's favorite money-making techniques is to capitalize on the popularity of a film by making a sequel.  

If you can't enjoy an action-fest, don't watch 'em.  If you were looking for hardcore sci-fi filmography, then you're deluded.  It's a movie.  It was released in theatres.  If you prefer indie flicks, hit some rental stores and avoid theatres like the plague.  I can enjoy a thinking movie as much as the next guy, but I can also loosen up once in awhile.  I thought Pi was a decent movie and it was the first one I've watched in awhile that actually kick-started my brain a bit.  However, it was artsy for the sake of artsy-ness and seemed to be filmed in grainy black-and-white for the sheer sake of seeming more amateurish.  This is basically the same deal as the over-hollywooding of mainstream movies, just in a different direction.

[Nacho]

LylGraphMaster... I was shocked when reading that you´re part of a special superior race (maybe Aria Race?) that can enjoy the Matrix, and I was also shocked when I read that the ones who (like me) don´t like the movie are bastards...

That was quite isulting for me, but...

Then I saw your profile and I saw that you´re just a 15 years old guy.

I suppose I can´t blame you if you like the Pokemon and all that stuff... but please... don´t tell us we´re bastards or we will send you to the nursery with Mitar, ok?

[remixor]

If you can't enjoy an action-fest, don't watch 'em.  If you were looking for hardcore sci-fi filmography, then you're deluded.  It's a movie.  It was released in theatres.  ... However, it was artsy for the sake of artsy-ness and seemed to be filmed in grainy black-and-white for the sheer sake of seeming more amateurish.  This is basically the same deal as the over-hollywooding of mainstream movies, just in a different direction.

I somewhat agree with your statements, although I wouldn't say that there aren't deep or meaningful movies in wide release (if this isn't what you were implying, never mind.).  They're just rare relative to all the crap that gets released.
 About Pi, the director (Darren Aronofsky) spoke at my university a few weeks ago and admitted that the main reason it was filmed in black and white was not for any sort of indie-cred or anything, but because the crazy computer consoles and so forth looked much cheesier in color.  The high-contrast black and white made them look a bit less like the low-budget props they were  Plus, he just liked that high-contrast look for that film.  I think it worked overall, and I definitely got some thought out of the film, but I totally see where you're coming from with the overly artsyness.  This is just as much a problem in many real indie films too, though.

[DGMacphee]

More on the Wachowski-Bondage Lover situation from IMDB...

Wachowski Courts Trouble

A Los Angeles judge has frozen the assets of Matrix Reloaded co-director Larry Wachowski. After reports Wachowski left his wife Thea Bloom for professional dominatrix, Ilsa Stix, his wife has gone to court in an effort to stop Wachowski giving away money. In a court filing Bloom claims, "Larry was been extremely dishonest with me in our personal life, and I believe he is hiding information from me regarding our financial affairs." Though she does not mention the dominatrix, Bloom does say, "Our decision to separate was a mutual one, made in July 2002, based on very intimate circumstances, concerning which I do not elaborate at this time for reasons of his personal privacy." Larry's lawyer declined comment.

No wonder most of the characters in the film wear leather and latex.

[LGM]

I'm just stating what I observe..

I'm not being sensitive, I'm just tired of everyone trying to convince people that actually enjoy the move that it sucks.. That's all.

It's the same thing as someone totally dissing some art piece you put your heart and soul into.

Bah, I give up with you bunch.

[Jimi]

Its all a matter of taste. I like Acion, war, and mystery (thriller) films, but someone else probably hates them.

[Synthetique]

MWAHAHAH! i AM the matrix!!    :o

[Barcik]

I think that most people (both viewers and creators) are taking the Matrix out of proportions. The Matrix is an entertaining piece of Hollywood action, not a clever sci-fi movie or a philosopchical apocalypse epus. That's the way it should be expected, and only like that it can be liked.

[Dmitri]

[left blank]

edit: Ya know why? Because I had a second thought about every opinion I put in here. In short, I disliked the matrix, I've disliked just about all movies I've ever seen except "misses doubtfire". So ner.  

have a nice day

[evenwolf]

Lil, that doesn't seem to me what you've been doing.

Things said by the one you claim to be would be like:
"Well you guys may not like it, but I'm still convinced it's one of the greatest movies of recent.  However I respect your all's opinion."


See, now- if you had consistently stood up with your points using language such as that, those opinions would remain very well respected.  What you have said are things like this:

"You all are just too lazy..." "You guy are just too cynical..."  "You guys are just pissy"   etc etc -  "in order to appreciate this awesome movie."

Stating things in this way gradually loses one's credibility, you see. For now the argument is no longer whether "Reloaded" is a good movie but rather "is EvenWolf being lazy, cynical and/or pissy?"  Of course I'm not, this movie will make a billion damn dollars whether I like it or not.  I am in the minority of Matrix goers, I actually say "It could have been better if it focused on these aspects instead".  You , LGM, are in the majority of filmgoers who can call a movie "the best of its time" based on CG explosions, implosions, fight scenes, and psuedo meaningful bullcrap.

So don't act like the art piece is getting more flak than praise- as you and a million other people are exagerrating just how good this heap of junk is.

[remixor]

There are innumerable stupid movies I don't bother spending time criticising.  This is because most of those movies don't gross God knows how many millions of dollars , garner books written about their philosophy, utterly dominate most screens at the cinemas, and cause the hardcore ravings of legions of fans willing to savagely defend the most inane of plot devices and stupid effects.  Your average run of the mill stupid movie (including the ones stupider than the Matrix) just come out, maybe make some decent money the first few weeks, and eventually fade away.  It's just that when I see something like this permeate all aspects of culture, I feel compelled to explain why I don't buy into it.  And thing is, it doesn't even matter.  I could launch my own private Matrix crusade and send out thousands of promotional pamphlets, and the Wachowskis could just laugh and wipe their asses with them.  So for those people who love the Matrix, there's no need to pay any heed (hooray for rhyming) to my ramblings.  Your side will win in the end and I'll just be a bitter cynical bastard.  I've come to terms.  The movie still sucks though.

[Trapezoid]

The movie still sucks though.
I haven't even seen the Matrix films, but I know that this can't be true. Wether you like it or not, a film sucks if the general populace thinks it sucks, which obviously isn't the case with The Matrix. And I'm sure if you watched the films and judged them based on their own merit and not in a way that's completely influenced by outside information (the nonstop public raving) you wouldn't say it sucks.
While I don't have much personal interest in the movies, I wouldn't lower my opinion of a movie just because other people love it TOO much. When all is said and done, a film is just a couple hours of image and sound. It is not its fans.

[MrColossal]

also, the continue:

the matrix had some stupid car chases and some awkward explosions [cars don't explode that easily i don't care if it's an SUV or not] BUT

Jackie Chan makes a movie and beats up all of China with a ladder and 3 refridgerators and then climbs a wall without using his hands and no one cares because that is the universe his movies exist in.

the universe that the matrix exists in i liked better in the first one, the CG wasn't as horrible or numerous and the fight scenes had more of a purpose

there, that's what i wanted to say

that and seriously... why can't the agenst shoot a damned gun?! comeone one of them was 5 feet away from trinity traveling the same speed as her while she was completely exposed on a motorcycle and he missed every every time?

anyway, Matrix Pizza is pretty damned cute

eric

[remixor]

The movie still sucks though.
I haven't even seen the Matrix films, but I know that this can't be true. Wether you like it or not, a film sucks if the general populace thinks it sucks, which obviously isn't the case with The Matrix.

No, I think that's ridiculous.  All personal judgments aside, I absolutely cannot concede that a movie sucks if public opinion deems it so, nor by implication the opposite.  I'm not sure if you think this just applies to movies, or if it applies to other opinions as well.  If you think it just applies to films, why are they treated that way?  And if you think it applies to other opinions at all, there's more than enough historical evidence to render such a statement meaningless.

And I'm sure if you watched the films and judged them based on their own merit and not in a way that's completely influenced by outside information (the nonstop public raving) you wouldn't say it sucks.

I can't speak for anyone else in this particular matter, but that's not true in my case at all.  I specifically stated in my above post that there are plenty of stupid movies I don't bother criticising in as much detail as I do the Matrix.  I even said many of them were WORSE than the Matrix.  However, I don't find a need to elaborate on those films; I explained already why I make a point to explain my problems with the Matrix.  It's not public opinion that causes me to dislike the film, it's public opinion that in a sense causes me to justify my dislike for it.  It may be worth noting that I saw the film before I heard anyone's opinion on it, so my opinion was formed before I knew whether the general populace found it a disappointment or not.  There was no doubt it would be a box-office success, but I see no reason why it reasonably could have disappointed people overall.  That didn't happen, but it didn't influence my personal opinions.

While I don't have much personal interest in the movies, I wouldn't lower my opinion of a movie just because other people love it TOO much. When all is said and done, a film is just a couple hours of image and sound. It is not its fans.

Well, according to you, its quality is determined by its fans.  You're right that it's just a bit of media though, in the long term.  That's true, but films can also be meaningful and engaging, and I hold them to that standard.  Is that fair?  I don't know, but I'm not a fan of the "could you do better?" philosophy.  It's not my job, so I don't really have to.  "Why are you seeing The Matrix if you want depth and meaning?" people ask.  Well, that part is my fault.  My friends wanted to go see it and I agreed, under the assumption that this is one of those inevitable movies that I WILL see eventually whether I want to or not, be it at someone's house or anywhere else.

Anyway, as tends to be typical of me, my post has gotten out of hand.  Don't take any of that personally, Trap; most of it got off-topic from your post anyway

[Trapezoid]

Just to clarify, my first point was that art is subjective, but the only way you could possibly guage something's quality would be a consensus from everyone who's ever viewed it. If you personally think The Matrix sucked, then that's minus one point for The Matrix.
My second point was to try and form your opinions solely from the artwork as it is. If you were to watch The Matrix in an alternate dimension where it had no hype whatsoever, you'd most likely rate it better than you think you would. I realize it's nigh impossible to view every film you see while completely forgetting what you've heard about it, or to not compare it to other films, but I'm certain that your opinion of a film is better off purely yours and purely of the film. If that makes any sense at all.