Soo... what's the female count here?

[Las Naranjas]

It's found most commonly in social animals, and animals that rely on communities for survival.

And it's most commonly found in humans and bonobos (pygmy chimps) which have amongst the most complex social systems.

Which implies what we already know, that only a small part of sex is to do with reproduction. The vastly larger part of it is part of the social structure which we depend on more than anything else for our survival.

[Timosity]

That's the thing though, how can it be genetic? The genes wouldn't get passed on...

In theory, that seems right, but how many Homosexuals have kids of their own, either before they decided (came to terms with) they were homosexual or through IVF (probably illegally) or just by putting up with hetro sex for the sake of procreation,Therefore they are still reproducing and have been ever since the dawn of time, so it is genetically possible and probable. (doesn't mean the parent is homosexual, they just may carry a gene that contributes to that, or both might carry the certain genes, therefore more chance in having a homosexual child.

Cancer is a huge problem in our society, and will probably never be wiped out, maybe curable, though a lot of it is due to genetics, and the problem with cancer is it can hit at any age, therefore millions/billions of people reproduce before they get the cancer, and multiply this since the dawn of time, and it's no wonder that everybody seems to die from it if something else doesn't get them first.

Which one wil I get first, Lung, Bowl, Testicular, prostate, It's interesting that More people are aware of Breast cancer and it is more likely curable if found early cause of screening.

Marketing(if you call it that) of womens health has been more successful than mens, and women are more likely to see a Doctor for a mamogram or papsmear, yet men don't get there testes or prostate checked (usually until it's too late) yet these cancers are just as common. I guess breasts are just easier to market.

Women probably care about themselves more, and guys just think, "Yeah, I'll be right, no wucken furry's"

[Femme Stab Mode >:D]

It's not always one gene but often the combination of the genes.
Men can check themselves for testicle cancer as easily as women can check their breasts for lumps but from what I've heard guys don't like the idea of rolling their nuts between their fingers in front of a mirror.

[evenwolf]

And that's why we spend hours each day doing it? Haha, check your facts!

[DGMacphee]

Here's a theory:

When I was studying to be a teacher, one of the possibilities we learned in terms of homosexuality was that there is not just a binary opposition of hetrosexual/homosexual, but varying degrees of sexuality between the two extremes. (Obviously, as people can claim to be bisexual)

But I'm interested to know if genetics determine not only hetro and homo, but bi, semi-bi, bi-curious, etc, etc, etc

Interesting thought.

[Timosity]

Interesting theory DG,

And quite possibly a realistic answer,

And Sasha, I never mentioned just one gene, If you were referring to my reference as I said "both might carry the certain genes"

[Las Naranjas]

Well, you know I think we're all bi beneath our socialisation DG.

* Las Naranjas rolls his nuts

[Andail]

That's the thing though, how can it be genetic? The genes wouldn't get passed on...

The genes wouldn't get passed on from the homosexual individual, naturally. But hypothetically, we could assume that groups of people long time ago had better chances of surviving if they weren't over-populated. Therefore, a population where each individual has a remote chance of becoming homo-sexual, could survive other groups that spread too fast for their resources to suffice.

And regarding DG:s theory (I'm curious about in what subject you studied this? Sounds interesting):
Liberated people tend to claim that all people can be bi-sexual, if they and society allow them to realize this. If they come out of the closet, you know. I'm pretty convinced that all people can learn to become attracted to most anything, if society tells them to. Men, women, and, heaven forbid - children and why not animals.
People who rant on straight people for being narrow-minded for not accepting their bisexuality, haven't seen far enough; anything is possible, if you can accept it.

[Las Naranjas]

Or the gene could be regressive.

But I don't think there's a gay gene. Just perhaps a number that make you more prone to it.

[plasticman]

hmm...

DC-Match 5 (Alcaline/Vel vs Plasticman/Leksutin )
« on: 05 May 2003, 16:32 »  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The topic is:

Heterosexuality is just a social convention. Bisexuality is the natural way.

Plasticman and Leksutin agree, and get the first post

i knew this sounded familiar.

[GarageGothic]

I'm currently writing a thesis on the representation of bisexuality in movies, so I've spent a lot of time studying the theories of the sexual continuum. I was just reading about the two sociological approaches to the gay/straight binary: The essentialist one, which assumes that sexual orientation is somehow defined by nature, and the social constructionist one, which argues that homo- and heterosexual identity and behaviour are social roles, society's structuring to define a well defined "other".

Interestingly, the idea of a gay brain or a gay gene (which has not, I should add, been proven in any way) seems to be most popular with scientist who themselves are gay. There seems to be a need to justify a same-sex object choice by claiming it to be a condition rather than a choice. The logic being that you can't discriminate people, if they can't help what they are. And that actually seems to be the case. Statistics show that people who believe that sexual orientation is an in-born quality, are much more comfortable with gay people as teachers etc. (it's not contagious, they won't turn your children gay) than those who consider it a choice (some of those wouldn't even fly on an airplane with a gay pilot!) So yes, maybe the essentialist approach is one way to deal with homophobia.

But in my opinion, it's a cop-out, which misses the whole point of the discussion. Why search for the causes of homosexuality (or heterosexuality for that matter)? And how will you use the conclusions you reach? If you DO discover that it's hereditary, should we try to eliminate these genes?
Why aren't people asking if it's genetic to dislike brussel sprouts, or if vegetarians have different brains than meat eaters? And why is sexuality considered a static state when it's quite obvious that tastes can change with time - A few years ago I hated tea, now I drink four or five cups a day. Why is sexual object choice treated as so much more important than - not to mention different from - other matters of taste and preference? Because it's related to the structuring of gender difference, to patriarchal rule and thus to economics and society as a whole?

I think we're asking the wrong questions here, that's all I'm saying.

[DGMacphee]

Las: I'm thinking that maybe both socialisation and genetics have an affect.

There's proof on both accounts and neither disqualifies the other.

Andail: I'm racking my brain trying to remember which class it was.

I think it was one on basic human development.

The type of class where you study theories of Piaget, Eriksen, Kohlberg, Gardner, etc

It was for a teaching degree (incompleted).

[Femme Stab Mode >:D]

That's sociology.
I'm quite comfortable with gay people, Most of my friends are either gay or bi. My best friend is bi. The people who I eat my lunch with are bi. The people I eat my lunch with at school are bi.They got into a kind of a war with the school chaplain. One girl left the faith because she is bi. As soon as her friends found out she was put under alot of stress. I don't really care whether it's genes or choise, my teacher told me it's genes so I believed her. I was comfortable with my friends before my teacher told me that and at that time I thought it was choise. Homophobia is the new racism, what else can I say.

[Trapezoid]

I'm starting to feel like the genetic explaination doesn't make so much sense. The cavement who were more prone to mate with the cavegirls had more children. Simple as that. Homosexuality and bisexuality don't make sense, so they're more likely a social quirk caused by fine details that we'll probably never understand. Just EXISTING causes so many ebbs and flows on your personality, and don't get me started on puberty. So maybe it should be no surprise that some people end up being attracted to their own sex than the opposite.
That said, I somehow doubt that most of Femme Fatale's friends are gay or bi... Unless either A. she deliberately seeks them out, or B. it's, er... slightly more "trendy" to be "open-minded" about one's sexuality at her school.

[Matt Brown]

yeah trap, I agree. Some people are like that here just to piss off their parents, or b/c they are bitter about something. really.

"what? I'm grounded? What, Im bitter about something...I'll go tell everybody Im gay to embarrass you and get you kicked out of church and shuned from teh community!"


sadly, thats the way things work where I live

[Femme Stab Mode >:D]

Actually, most bi people in my school are outcasts.They're my friends first. They told me after I've known most of them for more than 6 months.

[Trapezoid]

In that case, it's not so suspicious. I'd rather hang out with the outcasts than the, uh, incasts.
But I do think the 10% figure is way overestimated.

[Evil]

Three forths of my family is homosexual and my mom grew up in a house of 8 and I have quite a few second cousins. It could possably be a gene or a family thing. I'm not gay and half of my Aunts and Uncles are. So it goes to show you... We still dont know...

[undergroundling]

Personally, I think bisexuality in most cases is bullshit.  Granted, there are certainly people who are bisexual, but I've known far too many people who claim/claimed to be bisexual but they "prefer" one sex or the other.  In my school, the general group of people who claim to be bisexual are doing it for attention or because they think its "different."  Many gay people say they're bisexual because they don't want to or are afraid to admit that they are homosexual.

So, I'm sure there are plenty of bisexuals in the world, but in my personal experience, it's either a trendy thing to say or a cop-out for people who don't want to admit being gay.

- Bryan

[Necro]

Soo whats the female count ... to.... animals, furriphilia and homosexualism this is one off topic thread.

I was a mere passer by and ive just read 8 , count them EIGHT pages of off topic stuff...

lets see if we can make it 16!