My brilliant discovery for today!

[SSH]

I think we should all just accept that George Bush is always right and those countries most vocal in opposing him, such as France and Russia and Germany should stop speaking their wierd langauges and sign up to be states 51-53. I mean, the Russians can't even get their alphabet staright. The keep writing Ns and Rs backwards and stuff! And they kept spelling USSR as CCCP! Tchh!

Obviously we should all speak Spanish, as most of George Bush's relatives do and there are now more Hispanics in the US than Blacks, they will obviously soon take over the country and thereby run the world.

Hasta la dominacion del mundo!

[Femme Stab Mode >:D]

plasticman - Mr.Panda's post have invocked feelings of national pride in me, something very rare. Lots of my relatives were in the Army you see. Many died. It's as much family pride as national pride I guess.

[Matt Brown]

whoa. looks like I really fucked up my first post, cause it didnt seem to say what I wanted it to say at all.

I was not trying to shove US military might into all your faces, nor was I trying to diss anyone's family or nation.

Look, I thought the whole US-making-fun-of-france-cause the opposed the war-and lost some wars thing is retarded. I wondered to myself why, if thats what our nations leaders want to do, they didnt do the same for the other countries that opposed us. Germany, fought in both world wars (and did very well for the most part)..and still lost them both. Russia, while wining world war II, (and I might add, in a very brave manner, where they prob. should have lost, but kept fighting) but sustained massive deaths in not only that war, but every war they have fought since the late 1700's, with their minor wars in Iran, and then later, in losing the Russo-Japaneese war, one that they should have one, given their huge man advanatage and such. Why dont we call vodka liberty-juice or something? Go back to Liberty-steak for hamburgers? I'm being sarcastic here. Launching a nation-wide smear campaign b/c some other democratic nation decided to be democratic is stupid. Even the Big bad US got chased out of tiny somilia.

And look at the people who supported america? See an military giants among them? Im just trying to prove a point here. Most of these nations are eastern european countries were were overrun by both Natzi Germany and then the USSR. Or some third-world African nations that are in prepetual civil wars they cant end, and thousands and thousands more perish.

Its a horrible double standard. I guess I didnt do a good job showing that. Sorry to those I offended.

[Darth Mandarb]

I think Human Nature leads ALL man into war inevitably.  It's naive in an extreme to think that human kind has evolved an 'enlightened' sense of themselves that would steer us away from war.  It's what we do, it's in our genetic make up.

It's like women getting mad at men because we're all 'pigs' ... this has never made sense to me!  They think we're pigs 'cause we think about sex a lot NewsFlash: it's always been this way ... so why is this wrong?  War is a part of life ... it has been from the start of human kind on this planet and will be until we destroy ourselves.

Human Nature is survival of the fittest.  It would be nice if we could get past this is and the world would be a Utopia ... but do any of you really think that would work?  Human Nature leads mankind into war.  The world, though they don't have to like this, should just realize that this is the case and it's not going to change.

And on another subject:  ALL human kind are genetically very similar.  We're all the same ... all these petty bullshit statements "Americans are war-mongers", "The French stink", or "Australians throw shrimp on the barbee" are, in the end, rediculous.  If all nations were of the same prosperity level I think you'd find all human kind acting the same and having the same problems.  People bitch that Americans don't take responsibility for their own actions (like these fat kids sewing McDonalds 'cause they're fat) ... but I guarantee you that if other nations had the same society level that America does they'd be doing the same things.  It's all in human nature.

Andail:

You see, despite of what you are taught nowadays, America was not a super military power at this time. Right after the depression, USA had the tenth biggest army in the world, about the same size as Belgium's.

By the time America was mobilized for the war (just months after Pearl Harbor) we had passed Great Britain in Naval power (despite our losses at Pearl) and had one of the largest standing armies.  The sleeping giant had indeed been awoken.  Not everything in the history books is wrong you know?

DGM:

And my point is: do people really feel so insecure that they have to argue with minor nitpicky commentary?

I don't know that I would call it insecurity exactly.  I mean, if you insult me personally I would prolly just laugh it off (given our colorful past now) but if you insult my nation I feel obliged to defend it.  I guess in the end (as I stated above) it's all rediculous because, despite cultural differences, all mankind are inherently the same.  And I'll be the first to admit that America has problems, but I still love my nation and would die to defend it and the ideals we live for.

This is all a pointless debate though because the world is one big boiling cesspool that is quickly headed to Armageddon and in 2000 years when somebody stumbles across an old computer and reads this post they're going to say, "That Darth Mandarb guy was a prophet!"  I'm going to be the next (whack-job) Nostradamus!!!

dm

[plasticman]

i see what you mean, femme fatale. but it annoys me when people feel the need to brag about the exploits of their country, or take offense when it is criticized.

dg, i don't disagree with what you said about cousteau, i was just surprised that you would think of him first (and not because he was detestable). damn, i couldn't even name a famous australian besides crocodile dundee and nicole kidman.

i don't know about the subject of nitpicking, i think people do that when they have nothing else to communicate. it seems that the less you know about something or someone, the more you need to criticize it...

[DGMacphee]

DM: I'm interested -- how come you're more likely to defend an insult against your country as opposed to an insult against yourself?

To you, what makes your country more important than yourself as an individual?



plasticman: sorry, I misunderstood.

As for my choosing of him, I just picked the first name that popped into my head.

Being a fan of filmmakers, I just thought of him.

Sure, I could have picked Godard or someone else, but Cousteau's name just hung there.

damn, i couldn't even name a famous australian besides crocodile dundee and nicole kidman.

I don't know about famous -- just because someone is famous, doesn't always follow that they contribute something that's very awe-inspiring or beneficial.

But there are a few Australians that pop into mind.

Fred Hollows, for example.

it seems that the less you know about something or someone, the more you need to criticize it...

I like this.

I'm going to write it down right now and post it on my wall.

Thank you, plasticman.

[plasticman]

i didn't know fred hollows, i'm uncultured like that. but thanks to that i just found a web page with a big list of famous australians, so i'll fill the gap.

and i'm glad i could contribute to the decoration of your room.

[Darth Mandarb]

Dammit!  I typed up this long ass reply and the server crashed or something ... It didn't post.  here's the second version:

DM: I'm interested -- how come you're more likely to defend an insult against your country as opposed to an insult against yourself?
To you, what makes your country more important than yourself as an individual?

People on these forums don't know me personally ... so if they cast personal insults against me I tend to just laugh it off.  There are times when an insult (even from somebody I don't know) can hit close to the mark and I might defend myself.  I guess I just think casting personal insults isn't the right thing to do (and yes, I know I've done it from time to time ... sometimes my temper gets the best of me).

I truely believe that duty to one's country superscedes concern for the individual.  I want my kids (assuming I have some one day) to have the same lifestyle/opportunities that I had and I will do whatever is needed to insure that for them by keeping my country the way it is.  Even if it's detrimental to my own well being.  Yes, there are things in America that need fixing and aren't 'good' by modern standards ... but I wouldn't want to live anywhere else in the world.  [humor]Especially France[/humor]

So, because of that, I feel a strong desire to defend my country from insult or attack.

Cheers,
dm

[Flippy_D]

Tracking conversations is fascinating.

Other than that, I have no real comment to add, most of the things I know have been said, and people obviously know a lot more than me on these subjects. Sorry. But I just think it's awe-inspiring how the human mind can transcend from one conversation to another with little to no prompting.

Carry on, it's all very interesting.

[veryweirdguy]

I agrre with Flippy, my little discovery on Google has turned into a discussion on Racism & Patriotism. Fasinating, really.

Carry on...

[DGMacphee]

Dammit!  I typed up this long ass reply and the server crashed or something ... It didn't post.  here's the second version:

DM: I'm interested -- how come you're more likely to defend an insult against your country as opposed to an insult against yourself?
To you, what makes your country more important than yourself as an individual?

People on these forums don't know me personally ... so if they cast personal insults against me I tend to just laugh it off.  There are times when an insult (even from somebody I don't know) can hit close to the mark and I might defend myself.  I guess I just think casting personal insults isn't the right thing to do (and yes, I know I've done it from time to time ... sometimes my temper gets the best of me).

I truely believe that duty to one's country superscedes concern for the individual.  I want my kids (assuming I have some one day) to have the same lifestyle/opportunities that I had and I will do whatever is needed to insure that for them by keeping my country the way it is.  Even if it's detrimental to my own well being.  Yes, there are things in America that need fixing and aren't 'good' by modern standards ... but I wouldn't want to live anywhere else in the world.  [humor]Especially France[/humor]

So, because of that, I feel a strong desire to defend my country from insult or attack.

Cheers,
dm

I didn't undertsand from your reply what made country more important than the individual.

Just to verify -- Is it because you want to have kids one day and thus the desire to defend your country more so than yourself is based upon your future offspring?

If so, how come you state that there are things that need fixing even though in the previous sentance you say that you want to keep you country just the way it is for your kids?

I'm not trying to make any point here -- just trying to understand, despite whether I agree or not.

[Darth Mandarb]

I guess if I had to give a short answer (thus less confusing) I would just say: I love America and that's why I defend it.

As far as the "same as it is" confusion.  I meant to say "same as it was".  There are things that need to change, yes, but these things wouldn't keep me from having kids.  They're things I don't really think there's much that can be done about.  Such as racism, the double-standards, and the stupidity ... these are all symptons of ignorance and there just isn't a cure for that.

dm

[DGMacphee]

I guess if I had to give a short answer (thus less confusing) I would just say: I love America and that's why I defend it.

And what makes you love America more than loving who you are as a human being?

See, I probably will never understand this.

I believe in myself as an individual more so than my country because I believe my individuality can provide me with a greater understanding of the nature of things more so than my country can.

My country lies to me -- like any other western, political propaganda-based country.

They don't really care about me or speak for me -- all they're interested in is getting my vote.

Meanwhile, I feel I'm honest with myself -- And I have great confidence in myself and my ability.

And that is why I'll probably never understand why people place their country above themselves.

[Darth Mandarb]

I don't love the American government more than myself ... I love my country.  I love the land, the people, and our way of life.  I believe in America.

Fuck the government ... I hate politics and all the bullshit that goes with it.  I'm talking Rocky Mountains, the Plains, the sawgrass in the Florida Everglades, the bald eagle and the grizzly bear.  Seeing the red white and blue flying in somebody's front yard ... seeing a nation divided come together and truely unite after sept. 11 (even if it was short lived)

The night after the attacks was Karoake night at our local pub.  We were all up there and people were really somber and down ... one guy got up there and sang our National Anthem and everybody in that pub was on their feet, tears on their cheeks, singing at the top of their lungs.  Those are the Americans I love and would defend with my life.

That's the America I love.

dm

[DGMacphee]

There was something I was going to write here, but I don't feel the need to now.

Besides, we're really just going around in circles and repeating ourselves.

I'll probably never be able to get the answer to the question I'm asking here.

It's probably too difficult a question to ask.

[Meowster]

I think all countries are full of shit, and the only good thing about them is the landscapes. I don't like American people, French people, ANY people, I like individuals and it shouldn't matter where they're from. I don't like countries on a whole because they've been proven to be hypocritical and cruel. The Americans and English have been absolutely ghastly over this war in iraq, Tony Blair lied about all sorts of shit and the americans made a pigging mess in Iraq, but that doesn't represent the view of the people. Most of whom apparently think they're fucking wonderful and god is on their side. I couldn't believe it when Bush Retardio JR came out with "God is on our side". Because that's just primitive.

Not to focus too much on america, but I only like individuals, not countries, nations or anything the fuck else. And pride in your nation is only worth anything if you're getting paid for it.

[Miez]

My few eurocents worth of "wisdom": have you all noticed how people tend to get dumber if they operate in bigger groups?
When two people get together, it can be like magic - great ideas flying about the place, loving each other, etc. Then when you look at a larger scale, say a group of people that call themselves a "nation", "country" or "religion" they tend to treat each other as spoilt little kids ("that's my oil!", "you look stupid","you shouldn't eat creatures with more than three legs!"). They don't actually say it like that - just cover everything in ubercomplicated political b*llshit - but it IS how they act. And if you look at humanity as a whole: that's just like this enormous, mindless, amoebal blob that covers the planet. We know we're killing other creatures and our own habitat by the bucketload, but we just seem unable to act in a reasonable way.
Funny eh? or rather, not so funny ...  

[Andail]

The night after the attacks was Karoake night at our local pub.  We were all up there and people were really somber and down ... one guy got up there and sang our National Anthem and everybody in that pub was on their feet, tears on their cheeks, singing at the top of their lungs.  Those are the Americans I love and would defend with my life.

That's the America I love.
dm

I think people on this forum are a bit too blasé to become touched by that...we've seen it a million times in cheap american heroic movies...it just doesn't do it...

In my eyes, nothing is worth dying for except possibly some family member or g/f or something...no bloody nation...

[Miez]

The night after the attacks was Karoake night at our local pub.  We were all up there and people were really somber and down ... one guy got up there and sang our National Anthem and everybody in that pub was on their feet, tears on their cheeks, singing at the top of their lungs.  Those are the Americans I love and would defend with my life.

That's the America I love.
dm

I think people on this forum are a bit too blasé to become touched by that...we've seen it a million times in cheap american heroic movies...it just doesn't do it...

In my eyes, nothing is worth dying for except possibly some family member or g/f or something...no bloody nation...

Andail, I think you are (partly) right - most of the people here are too blase. But if DM was touched by that situation, then he was touched. Nothing more or less. After all, being touched by something is not a conviction, it's an emotion.
And I agree that very, very few things are worth dying for. Especially things ending in "ion" and "ism" are never worth dying for.

[DGMacphee]

"If I'm gonna get my balls blown off for a word, my word is poontang."
    - Animal Mother from Full Metal Jacket