Messages

Misj' (And don't worry, I know you are playing devil's advocate here), according to the Bible, God just created the Hebrew people... If you follow the "bible family tree" you' ll see that in Genesis "Adam was the father of blah, and this was the father of blah blah, and this was the father of blah, blah... And this was the father of Salomon, who was the father of David".

And then, from that "family", sons of Ishmael became muslims and sons if Israel became Hebrews. Some of those Hebrews split and formed the "Christians".

You can track from the descendants to the antecessors and realise that hebrew people was created after some civilizations were already in earth. I don't really know how literalists match that with the archeologycal evidences, but many "believers" told me "God made the Hebews, and he considered them his best creations... He made them from "scatch", trying not to repeat the mistakes he did with his previous generations. He also had to "purgue" his creation with the deluge because it was not going too good".

So, yeah... He maybe made some other "human-shaped" creations before, and gave them commandments, but he had to start the process again.

That brings some thoughts to me...

Man... that makes no sense to me at all. I mean... first, are we admitting if we concur with that idea here that non-hebrew/christians/and muslim people are unperfect? Wow... That' s a bit unsulting to most of the Asian population... Second... can an almighty God make flaws in his creations? What a shitty might... And after that, He has to purgue his finest creation at the middle of the process with a deluge because they are not totally satisfying??? And, even with that, after such an amount of interventionism, believers do dare to say "God's biggest gift to us was free will"?

Religion, if you think of it, makes no sense at all...

-Hey guys! Let's do an 50,000-year intergallactic trip to another solar system!
-What do we do when we get there?
-Crash into the Rings of a non populated planet, or couse!
-Sounds like a plan!

Jim... Can you read?

Did I told the Ten Commandments are bad? Where? Quote it, please.

I said: "They are not original, so, we don't need a God to give us something we already had".

Clear?

God made the ten commandments so that people who didn't realize what a bad thing to do is, don't make mistakes before they know that they are mistakes.

Wait, you are saying that there was no ethical code telling what the Ten Commandments tell before they were given to Moses?

False. They were... And some of them were much rich and extense than the ten commandments...

That's  why we need a God? To give us something we managed to get without his help? man... The more I know about that "God", the more convinced I am that he is a truly incompetent.

The Bible makes sense? Hehehe...

And, on second though... Can you bring at least ONE unique and original concept in Bible?

If/when the hostile aliens come to earth, all of the skeptics and cynics will think otherwise. Take the Orson Wells broadcast for example. I expect a fair proportion of the people that fled were devout doubters a few hours before hand.

Actually, the "hysteria" created by that broadcast was highly exaggerated. Lots of calls to the radio station and to the police, yeah, but most of them asking if the radio program was true or a joke (We must remember that, during the beginning of Wells' show, when it was mentioned that the broadcast was a dramatization, most of the people was hearing a famous radionovel in another station) and some calls saying "I am seeing the aliens ships landing!" in a certain place of America where there were illegal grass burnings. Nothing else.

Yes, allpowerfull means just that, there is no one above God. But if He, let's say, kills a man, and says that others shouldn't do it, I would do what He tells me, and not do what He does.

There are things that are above "God", according to my experience.

-The flying spaghetti monster.
-Papa Smurf.
-Superman.
-The mighty Unicorn.

And to prove that my words are right I give you the following evidences:

-
-
-
And
-


Which are, basically, the same evidences you gave me of the existence of God.

Mark, I'm not trying to be a jerk, I  just don't see how you measured/perceived distance from lens to object to be at a high altitude?   

Perhaps we know that aircraft operate at some range of altitudes and that they sometimes have lights.   So when we see lights moving in a night sky we have an unconscious expectation of where they ought to be. 

No, by the way they move, by the info we have in the video, seems that is something that is:

-Higher than 20/30 meters (By the movement, I don't think they are bugs or something small moving close to the camera... The motion is too regular... Unless they are big bugs that fly quite high)
-Closer than infinite.

Nothing else...

My condolences... But, even knowing that YOU are not able to see it this way NOW, I am sure that you' ll come with something even better than the original work... ^_^ Anyway, you have my sympathy for what happened.

What I mean is that we created God, as we created Unicorns... in our imagination, and after that we reflected that beliefs in in our written and oral tradition. We did not "materialise" God into a real supernatural being, as we did not "materialise" unicorns into real animals.

I am a bit lost in this discussion, RickJ, I must confess... too much tecnical stuff! So, to summarise... What do you think about the video that Mark posted? 

Which worked for centuries as an excuse for many "believers" to kill "sinfull" people. God is not very good at previewing the consequences of His acts, apparently.

Humans have the power of choice. No one forced them to kill, it was their choice. An excuse doesn't kill a man, man does.
God gave man the power of free choice, and you can't blame Him if a man chooses to kill.

I do not blame God for the bad things humans do. I can't. I can' t blame anything to something that does not exist...  At least I don't praise him for the good things humans do...

You believers seem to waste a lot of energy defending God, don't you? A supernatural perfect Being should be good enough for not needing any kind of defense from its tiny, weak and humble creations... Unless it's the tiny creations who created the supernatural Being, of course!

Which worked for centuries as an excuse for many "believers" to kill "sinfull" people. God is not very good at previewing the consequences of His acts, apparently.

And if we are not stronger enough for his standards, He kills us with a deluge...

A true loving Father... 

Hey, how can God (A being of overwhelming power and wisdom) create an angel that finally became the demon? I mean, according to the tradition (not to the bible, though...) Satan was most beautyful and highest of the Angels He created... How can He be so stupid of creating something that is going to be the seed of all the bad things in Earth?

(Believer answer) God did not create something bad. It was Satan who wanted to be as good as God. That's why he started a revolt. He lost the war against God, so He punished him. So he turned bad and was sent to hell.

(Skeptic Answer) Okay, then... How can God be so stupid of not previewing that Satan is going to revolt? If he was able to see he was going to revolt, he is stupid for creating him. If he was not able to see he was going to revolt, then He is not so powerfull as we've been told. So, what is God, an idiot which creates bad things on purpose or a weak supernatural being who can not forecast future?

Mark, if I offended you, sorry that' s why I stopped posting here, not because I ran out of arguments or because I think I was offensive, but because I don't want to piss it off and unadvertedly offend you in the future.

But I do not agree. Let's agree in that. ^_^

The correct answer to "Are we alone in the universe" is not: "It's very unlikely", Mr. Matti... The correct answer, actually, is "We don't know".

Anyway, the Fermi paradox almost proves we are not visited by aliens.

Okay... Thanks for your answer. It's true, I knew that IR cameras had difficulties to record the light of the stars, I had no information about 3 generation ones. It will be something I will mention in the Skeptic Circle Club, it's something they must know for not pissing it off like I did! 

But... I don' t think that are good news for UFO believers, to be honest...

That means that we have a camera that can even get the IR trace of long stars... Which means that it has the "power" to see the IR trace of something that has not been easilly seen by previous IR cameras.

So, what we have here is a frickin' sensitive camera!

That opens wide the number of possible objects that can be recorded... So, it can be anything... Bats, fireflies, birds, fighters... Anything. Come on, don't be so close minded to say that, from the zillion of possible answers, the UFO one, your answer, is the ONLY one! Open your mind as we skeptics do! 

Scientists are behind nuclear weapons. Where is their born-with notion of right and wrong?

God is behind the holocaust of the Universal Deluge...

I've been doing research. Stars are not visible via IR video records... Seems we have a fake, here.