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And remember, Akatosh! Some centuries ago "God" was the answer for everything!

Old days:

God 100 % I------------------------------------------------------------I Science 0%

Nowadays, things are changing...

God 20% I--------------I---------------------------------------------I Science 80%.

But of course, Believers are not able even to think of the possibility that this "20%" is going to move to "0%" one of this days... They ASSUME they know the future and that "God" is going to remain,  immobile as a rock, for ever. Believers do not also believe in God, they also predict future! Predicting future is the base of their beliefs. Wow...

I preffer to say a humble "I don't know" when I am asked if science will do the 100%. They not.

Of course, I am the unpolite...

I think you'd want me to say Nothing from the Bible is to be taken literally, but the thing is that I have faith, I'm a  believer and you don't. Therefore some things I cannot prove to you but you cannot prove them wrong to me because you don't believe in them, so you assume they don't exist. For you there is only the material side of things and everything must be on a equation while for me there is the God factor that holds everything together and gives it meaning.

Well... I can prove that a couple of all the animals in the world does not fit in an ark as the one described in the Bible.

What matters what "Jesus" said? St. Paul rewrote it all to make it more suitable for greco-roman cultures...

Hahahaha, Domino!

Okay... and what about the manual... Would you trust the manual or not?

SSH: Put "bath tube" in google, and go to "images". Number of entries=Aprox. a million.

God did not drown Jesus in a bath tube. He drowned his kids in the Deluge... That' s what I call a super-dad!

Science=Constantly updated.
Bible=Not updated since the end of the Roman Empire.

Another question for believers: Jesus said: "Do to others what you want the others to do to you". Okay... if somebody likes saddism and likes to be beaten and his nipples nailed... Is he allowed, according to Jesus' words, to to that to the rest of the people?

I am receiving a lot of replies, even via PM, to my "questions". Most of them are different. Weird! Some of you tell me that a "golden heart" person can go to heaven, even if he does not believe. What' s the point of believing, then?

New question: There is a flight manual: After reading it, the teaches asks to the flight cadets a question:
Would you pull up or down the joystick of the plane if it starts to stall?

One asks "up". One asks "down". The flight instructor goes to the manual and he is not sure about the correct reply, either... He consults other instructors... Some of them tell him that, according to the manual, the correct answer is "up", some others "down".

Would you trust in that flight manual?

Miguel, I am not asking irrelevant questions... I am just prooving that believers can't answer the questions we atheistics can't either. So, what' s the point of believing? It gives no advantage (Well... probably believing there' s something else after passing away makes you happier... Like ignoring that you have a lung cancer and the famine in the world. Happier? Yes. Right? I doubt it.)

Nice avatar, though! ^_^

You haven't still answered to my question... If your kids are not what you expected to be... would you kill them drowning in the bath tube? As I guess your answer is no... How can you follow a being who did it?

Wait. Wait! So you are saying god really did drown kids in a bath tube? You did, you know. It's right there in that quote. God came to some place where there was a bath tube and drowned kids in it. Taking the sentence really literally, it also were SSH's kids.

This is getting ridiculous, really- do you realise that you're twisting words all the time, and then come up with such a thing? And that too will get twisted and again and again... really, I do enjoy a discussion (even if I disagree), and I really respect you for having a strong opinion, but... no, that one really cracked me.

He "drowned his descendants" with the universal deluge because "they decived him", yes, "he did".

Who claimed that, exactly? Have you a quote? It's certainly not something I've ever claimed. Christians are not better behaved or more honest although they should strive to be. They are not cleverer. They are not superior. They are just saved.

And a human being of infinite goodness who was born in the middle of the Amazon and had no chance to know "God" not?

Then your God is not a being of infinite goodness... He is just a ticket reviewer.

You haven't still answered to my question... If your kids are not what you expected to be... would you kill them drowning in the bath tube? As I guess your answer is no... How can you follow a being who did it?

Mr. Andrew... Are you aware that if you were born 1,000 years ago you would probably deffending things like "earth was created around 10,000 years ago in 6 days", with the same conviction and devotion that the one you use now to deffend the "we are saved" message? How can you be so convinced about one specific part of the message in particular when some other things (things which convinced people as much as you are now) have prooven to be incorrect?

So Nacho seems to be freely admitting he's not intelligent enough to debate the big bang and yet he believes it anyway because some special people wearing white lab coats tell him its true.

Substitute "Big bang" for "God" and "white lab coats" for "preist's robes" and its hard to spot the difference...

So, you finally admitt that being a believer is undistinguishable from a non believer? Thanks. That' s what I wanted to hear from the beginning. (Anyway my belief doesn't need to trust that the couples of all the animals fit in a boat... Only that big masses create singularities)

Babar: You replied to the questions very smartly, with something that "non-believers" also have: Common sense. Shouldn't the believers reply with something unified and superior than what us, mere non-enlighted by God, atheistics have?

So, basically we've seen that being a believer doesn't make you superior, smarter or better than a non believer, something they have claimed for centuries. So, as someone said: "God probably doesn't exist, so, don't worry and be happy" or, for not to offend anybody "If God exists believing in him doesn't make a difference, so, behave with common sense, and don't waste time worshipping him or energies trying to convince your kids of his existence: Allow them to be free to decide when they are adults".

[I don't understand the question at all, but no, it's never okay in my book]

Interesting replies, my friend, but I would like to read the answers of a "believer" to see if their belief in God makes his knowleadge distinguishable from the knowleadge of those who do not.  

EDIT:

-Is it okay to force your sister in law to marry her brother in law if she widowed shortly before and has no kids?
I don't understand the question at all, but no, it's never okay in my book

Would you understand the question if I tell you that this is preciselly what bible tells you to do? 

I still have questions... Don't divert my atention asking me about Big Bang... I am just a mere, humble and stupid atheistic!  I do not have (or claimed to have) the answers... There are things I do not know. But you are enlighted with the light of a superior knowleadge, so, again, please, answer this:

Some years ago "believers" believed that eart was created something like 6,000 years ago, in 6 days, and every animal, including men, where created in that period. They were CONVINCED it was true. Nowadays believers (Or at least, most of them) say: "Well, you know? That was poetry! Metaphors and all that... We know God did not created the Universe that way... But we are CONVINCED he was there, and he created the universe more or less in the way scientist say"

-How can you, knowing that the "conviction" of the "old believers" was uncorrect, be so sure that your "conviction" is the correct one?
-Do gorillas have a soul? When were humans awarded with a soul? Homo Habilis? Homo Erectus? Did neandertals had a sould? If so, why God allowed them to be terminated?
-If the best and kindiest golden-heart person in earth is born in a place where they don' t know God and he does not have the possibility to become a believer... can he go to heaven?
-Can Hitler go to heaven if he confesses his sins before passing away, if his confession was "correct" according to catholic standards? If he can... what is the point of behaving propperly, if you can fix it all at the end? If he can' t, how can God, a being of superior intelligence, do a sacrament that does not work?
-Is it okay to force your sister in law to marry her brother in law if she widowed shortly before and has no kids?
-Who can go to heaven? Christians? Those who follow the religions of the book, muslims and jews can go to heaven as well?
-What happens with those who believe in Shiva?
-What happens with the souls of those who were in earth before the old testament was written?
-What happens to you if you made a mortal sin one week before it was written in the Old Testament?
-What happens to you if you make a mortal sin that has been recently added to the Old testament, but you had no possible way to read it because the last edition of the book hasn't arrived yet to your local book store?
-God can ask me to do bad things. He asked Abraham to kill his son, and he was going to do it, but fortunatelly (Thank's God, better...) HE stopped him. But he can ask us to do bad things. If he asks us to do bad things... are we good christians if we do it? How can we distinguish between a real God commitement and one created by a mental disorder? If the devil, disguised as God, tells us to do something bad, are we sinners or not, if we believe it was God who asked us to do it? How do we judge people who acted bad if they say it was God who told them to do it?

When bad things happens, some believers say "That's because he gave us free of will... Bad human acts are our fault, not his. He can't intervene" Okay, but he acted before to kill bad humans. He purgued the humanity with the universal deluge: Why he acted before and he does not now? Can he act again, if out level of imperfection becomes too high? How could he, being infinitelly intelligent, create a humanity that was so unperfect that he had to purgue it? If our kids are not as perfect as we wanted, can we kill them drowning them in the bath tube?

Still waiting for answers. Believers, you have three options:

1)Reply to me with an unified, full of wisdom replies, prooving me that the knowleadge of the believers comes from something from above.
2)Reply to me with non unified answers... prooving that "God" gives answers that are argueable... as any other human created ethic code.
3)Try to divert the topic prooving that your "knowleadge" is not superior at all to the one I have.

Let' s see...

Andrew, I replied to you... It is just that the answer was not the one you liked...

Evidently, Misj' wants to criticise science using as a weapon the faults of very few. Let' s conceed this to him. Actually, yeah, Mendel wrote his conclussions before having material time to complete the experiments! He is right somehow...

Let' s assume that it' s possible to attack a whole concept by the faults of a minority.

So, can we start talking about Jihads, Holy wars, pederastian priests, religious anti abortion terrorists, false healers, false tele-preachers who ask your money for miracles, the inquisition and the abbuses of the missioners?

No? Ouch... I thought you wanted to start talking about rotten apples... Don't you? Damn! Okay... Let's get back on topic.

Thanks.

Or maybe they just finally grew bored of this fucking bullshit?

There are, evidently, some other better threads to follow... Like, for instance, your weekly "Help me with my laptop" one.

Natcho, can't you ask questions that were not answered before?

- Why are you so sure they were wrong? Because I told you so?

- Gorillas have souls, you don't!

- The best and kindest golden-hearted person in earth will surely die in peace. That's Heaven.

- I have no doubt someone like Hitler could confess his sins. If he truly acknowledged what he did, I wouldn't want to be inside his head. Haven't you done bad things that you regretted later, Natcho?

- I will not answer the question about your sister. If you don't need God then figure it out yourself.

- Everybody can "Go to Heaven", even you.

- I hope those who believe in Shiva play Dave Gilbert's game

- Read the Old Testament again.

- The same as above.

- What do you think?

Your answers Natcho.  

All evasives. Okay, gotcha, when a "believer" is asked about their beliefs, they evade the debate.

He... Miguel made a post before I finished.

1) Is Messi portuguese? I thought he was from Argentina.
2) "Scientists" discovering that there are real things in Old Testaments. Yes... and there are also evidences of old houses destroyed in Arkansas by tornados: Do we believe in Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz? There are also "evidences" of the laberynth of the minotaur. Archeologists have found toys in the cave where Zeus was supposed to hide for not being killed by his father, and they were more or less about the same period when the tradition tells that happened... Do we believe in Zeus? There are also "evidences" of Troy... Should we believe that Laoconte and his sons were attacked by a giant sea snake? Do we believe in Centaurs, and cyclops?

They are not really "scientist", we must say. They are archeologists: People who works in a land devastated by (religious) wars who have a difficult task and need money. Every sensationalist headline counts. If a boat is found in Tiberiades sea, it's "Jesus' boat". If a tomb is found in deep old Jerusalem, it's "Jesus' tomb". When you pass of the headline and read the complete article, you found nothing but lot of noise and very few nuts. Simillar case as for "evidences of Atlantis" or "the UFO incident in Roswell".

Can you answer me a question? Why there is no record (not even a sigle word) of the stay of Isralians in Egypt? A culture which documented, wrote and drawed everything? Why there is not even a single hebrew word written in an old stone in Egypt?

That' s funny, intense... ^_^ When I said "Believing in God is illogical" it was a "good time for debating".

When the big bang and other scientific theories came to the debate, according to you, it became "hunt the christian".

Yes, I agree... When rationality and science gets into the debate, it basically becomes a "hunt the beliver" thing...  

SSH: There are scientists who believe that racist theories are okay. Some others believe in cryptofauna and in UFOs. I think there is absolutelly nothing in earth which has a compete "Quórum". We must choose which things are sensible and which not. I believe in Big Bang. And Big Bang was a cosmic meatcracker which destroyed it all before (IT ALL... even the t-X law physics). If God was there before time, he died. If he was there after T>0... Then how can he be the creator???

Okay. Some questions:

Some years ago "believers" believed that eart was created something like 6,000 years ago, in 6 days, and every animal, including men, where created in that period. They were CONVINCED it was true. Nowadays believers (Or at least, most of them) say: "Well, you know? That was poetry! Metaphors and all that... We know God did not created the Universe that way... But we are CONVINCED he was there, and he created the universe more or less in the way scientist say"

-How can you, knowing that the "conviction" of the "old believers" was uncorrect, be so sure that your "conviction" is the correct one?
-Do gorillas have a soul? When were humans awarded with a soul? Homo Habilis? Homo Erectus? Did neandertals had a sould? If so, why God allowed them to be terminated?
-If the best and kindiest golden-heart person in earth is born in a place where they don' t know God and he does not have the possibility to become a believer... can he go to heaven?
-Can Hitler go to heaven if he confesses his sins before passing away, if his confession was "correct" according to catholic standards?
-Is it okay to force your sister in law to marry her brother in law if she widowed shortly after?
-Who can go to heaven? Christians? Those who follow the religions of the book, muslims and jews can go to heaven as well?
-What happens with those who believe in Shiva?
-What happens with the souls of those who were in earth before the old testament was written?
-What happens to you if you made a mortal sin one week before it was written in the Old Testament?
-What happens to you if you make a mortal sin that has been recently added to the Old testament, but you had no possible way to read it because the last edition of the book hasn't arrived yet to your local book store?

As you can see, I am being very respectfull... I am curious about religion and I want answers... Thanks!

But it doesn't explain where all this came from, including the energy etc. for the big bang. And what went before.

This is true.  Science doesn't yet explain what there was before the big bang, or if there was nothing, then where the big bang came from.  But that doesn't mean that it will never be able to explain this!  

But it has prooved that the Big Bang created everything. And everything means, everything, including the empty space, the rules of physics and the time. Therefore, there was no God before Big Bang (There was nothing, actually). Or... There was, and he died, since the origin of all was a infinitelly tiny funnel where nothing can pass through.

One quick question for Christians... Why in the Old Testament God was a intenrventionist full of rage being, coming to help every certain time its people, and after that he stopped his appearances? He became shy?

...Big Bang theory ... The latest studies prove that there was nothing before it.

Prove there was nothing before it? Really?

None of the possibilities needs a "God"

I don't think I said they did!

Actually both possibilities tell us that, if the big bang is true, there is no God.

How on earth do they do that? I'm not just trying to provoke, I honestly do not see how they do.

Of course, if your replies to option A and B are "Really?" and "I don't think so!", you'll never understand conclussion C. You are simply not opened to belive it.

Good post! You only have to add the line "and burn him in a fire!" to make it fit perfectly with some old religious standards!