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Best luck in this new era, Terran... 

Thanks Strange

What are sea kittens? I' ve googled and I only get weird explanations about a PETA way of calling the fishes...

On the other hand, you should change a bit the shape of his right eye (The "left" one, from our point of view). Compare it with the reference and see that your has more rounded shape. Indy looks younger. Do the test. Cover his right side of the face with a paper and look. He looks more like Shia Lebeouf. Do the same covering the left side. Harrison Ford now. Do the same guy in both sides of the face!

I think we should have them in free range, and kill them in the most humanitary possible way

The problem with that is that killing is inhumane in itself.

And isn't that belief that we should be "killing animals in the most humanitarian way possible" an act of Goddism that you suggested? Purely because of my above point.

I don't mean to sound harsh and I do agree with a lot of what you suggest about Goddism, it's just that this doesn't add up for me.

Two topics... I divide my reply in two

A) Dudeman, remember that I said that if you really care too much about animals, the perfect option is to turn vegetarian. EVEN with that, I *think* there is a much more humanitarian way of killing than what we do now (Intensive farmering-Inhumane transport-electroshock and the final slaughtering) The sollution could be "Free range-Good transport and (As Babar said) Guillotine.

B) About "Gooddism" (It' s Gooddism, from "being too good", not "Goddism" from "Believe to be Gods", to clarify) 

I am perefectly aware of how contradictorious my post is, first saying "We should do this, and this" and after saying that the society is becoming too naive. But I must clarify that I was not really meaning that we, or our society should become "harder". Read my post again and see that what I really think is that the goal is to become everyday less and less violent and more civilized. My point is that as a SOCIETY (Not as a human BEINGS) we should be READY for that kind of things. We should be able to be ready, as a society, to fight, to see the effects of the war, to pay a price if we want to get something.

As human beings, as individuals, I see perfectly normal that our minds tend fights against all that things.

As said, I do not endorse that we should do what I mentioned in that passage. I see nothing in your post meaning that you think that I think that, so, thank you very very very much. I was quite scared about the first reply to my post.



Second: That you labelled as the "wow!" argument is real. It was something that was rolling into the different secret services around the world, and the effect it had on the insurgence and their mentality is something that was recorded and measured that days. The only thing I can tell to you about that subject is that you must trust me (Or at least, "trust my world that I read it in reliable sources... As international press is nowadays we can't  assume anything written is real..) I can't  find links to that info, but the sources were quite reliable. Anyway, don' t focus in Abu Ghraib, or the US. Focus in Israel. The effects of what they do when they decide not to care about the public opinion are clear and we can still be witnesses of them. No more attacks from Hizbula since the last campaign, one year ago.

We are becomed civilized. Yes. And as I said, I think that this is preciselly what differenciate us from other cultures.

And I like it, I mentioned it as well...

But my point was not if we must become civilized or not. I think everybody with brain should agree that the more civilized, the better. My point is that if it' s good that we reach a point were we are not able to admitt, as a civilization, the possibilty of evil, pain and suffering in the world. My point is that if it' s good that we become that civilized that we become naive, and totally unable to act when the bad moments arrive.

[I don' t mean that what I mentioned we do today (Lebanon campaign, Guantanamo, Gaza strip campaign, Abu Ghraib) is ok either.]

I'm not a biologist or anything, but if no blood is going to the brain, they can't be feeling any pain, right?

Hey Babar, are you serious? What does have to see blood irrigation with the nervous system? Of course you can feelpain if there is no blood arriving to the brain. Another thing is falling unconscious, like we see in the Chinese movies, where the hero knocks down the bad guys by clamping the carotis. I am not sure about if that maneuver is so effective in real life as we see in HongKongWood... BTW, I can ensure you that if we cut the bloodstream by cutting the carotis (Halal System, if I am correct) might not be the worst way to kill, but can' t be nice, either.

(To clarify: I am not criticising the Halal ceremony... Basically I think we (Europe, America, Western counties...) do the same, but electroshocking the animal first so it can' t offer resistance to the cut... An electroshock that has been proved to be uneffective for make the animal faint, so, a cruel way to kill, quite worst than Halal, IMO...)

Now... My opinion about the subject: Allow me to develope it.

A) I don' t like seeing live animals suffering (Well... I might want to see some human beings suffering, but not animals), I think we should have them in free range, and kill them in the most humanitary possible way, including a correct way of transport to the slaughterhouse. That means that we should develope a way to kill them fast and with no pain. I would like my government to spent more money on advertising and promoting free range animal products, or even incentivate it with fiscal benefits and things like that... I would (I will) pay the extra money for that kind of meat.

B) I perfectly understand the "I am too poor to care for that stupidity. I want cheap meat" argument. I am nobody to go against that argument. "Normal meat" should be available for those who doesn' t want/can' t have "free range animal products". Free market. I would pay the extra for a humanitary way to farm animals. I wouldn't force anybody to do the same.

C) The "Real thing" to do if you reach certain degree of implication into "animal care" is to become vegetarian. (There are a lot of things to discuss into that, to be honest... There are dozens of animal species that wouldn't exist without human farming, because they basically are "evolutive losers", such as chickens or minks... But it' s okay, that should go to another thread).

D) Even with what I said before... Where are we going? There is a stream of "Gooddism" in the western contries that freak me out. Don' t missunderstand me. I think that these things make us what we are and differenciate us from another cultures, but... Aren't we going to far away? 60 years ago 8,000 guys died in a 5,000 yeards beach in one day for getting a military objective. Nowadays we complain because the same amount of ("our") people died in 5 years of conflict in Iraq. One day. 1,825 days. Compare.

But that' s not the only thing... We can not stand seeing our guys in black plastic bags. We can't see "their guys" either. If the army finds a column of Republican Guard fleding from Kuwait to Bassora and they kill them all, if a reporter comes there and takes photos, the whole campaign is doomed because "Public opinion can stand the massacre" (That happened in the Desert Storm... Because of that "Gooddism" we had to come back some years after...)

Same happens with civilian victims. "We" did the Dresde thing to give a lesson to the bad guys, 30,000 people died in one night. Now, a US missile loses a fin, it falls into the innadecuate place, kills three sheppards, and we organise a national movement to stop the war. 30,000 against 3.

Same with prisoners. I remember what "the bad guys" did to the "good guys" in Auschwitz, Kwai river or Hanoi Hilton. Now, if an idiot female GI gets photoshooted while doing the idiot with a naked prisioner, then "We must stop this, we are evil"

"Bad guys" call "us" the "paper tiger";

They are not ready to see their soldiers in black plastic bags, they have fear to attack us if we mix into civilians, they won't bomb us if they have doubts, if you get captured they will treat you fine... They don' t have what is needed to win this war. We will win"

Any movement made by the "Good guys" that undermines that "image" of "paper tiger" has proven to be shocking to the enemy, such as attacks to South Lebanon or Gaza strips without taking care of the international  reaction, or publishing the images of the navigations of Abu Ghraib. Hizbulá was shocked and made no further movement after the Israeli campaign in South Lebanon last year. Same happened in the Hamas HQ with the campaing happening this very moments. The level of attacks of the insurgency to american soldiers decreased dramatically after the photos of (the person I consider, IMHO, a whole idiot) Lynndie England were published. The "bad guys" thought "Wow! They can attack without previous warning, without taking into consideration what the people thinks" or "Wow... a 1,50 m. bitch is able, in that army, to do that to our soldiers... We must be carefulll with that people"

What I mean is not that "what we did" in the past (The WWII, Vietnam...) was ok. And this is very important: I don' t mean that what I mentioned we do today (Lebanon campaign, Guantanamo, Gaza strip campaign, Abu Ghraib) is ok either. (Actually, I think it's bad, and I wish we didn' t had to do it...) But... What I mean is that we (Western country societies) were able to UNDERSTAND it, and now we CAN'T.

We are becoming pussies.

And all this "free range" animals thing is another step into that "Gooddism" direction that freaks me out.

As a society. Because as an individual, I am totally into that pussy state I criticised before. And I am proud of it. 

But Kaio, you must notice that the Fedora in that reference is completelly "miss-sized" (Is that a world, actually?) I hope you undertand what I mean... It' s way too big.

Oh, man...If I could show you the supperb backgrounds Miez is doing... and he has made like *¨^""$%&/ so far! I wish I could... 

We are not posting much about it, but I can ensure that FoY is moving and has a lot of stuff done... 

Thank you Blazej.

Hey I was jocking!  This thread had like 9 posts when I posted the "Move this to popular threads"; how could I SERIOUSLY ask it to be moved to pop threads?

I find amusing that I had to explain it... 

This thread should be moved to popular threads...

I did a small reseach, and yeah, Dan, I think I might like them. If they are libertarians, the better...

But my computer does not reproduce sounds right now, so, I can' t watch (hear, to be precise) their shows... 

Ah, ok... Now I got it.

Fast reading=Crappy understanding.

When has the show become politically oriented? And oriented to which side? (Just asking) "Here" the show is not politically oriented yet, but probably someone is watching a season I haven' t seen yet.

Mmmmmm... Kari... Mmmmmm...

Edit: "Y" from "Kary" to "I" of "Kary". 

@Ryan: Indeed! I will read my post twice before clicking to the "post" button from now, just to be sure that all the meanings are clear as crystal... 

I am embarrased to say that I read some of my posts again and I don' t understand them... 

Stupot: What is for sure is that Mary was not virgin AFTER Christmas... Unless you believe that the baby magically materialised out of the utero... Wait! Believers believe that sort of things...  

And Miguel... Oh yeah! The old "Good is God... Evil is because we pissed it off".

Man, I don't know if "God" is devine or not... What I know for sure is that he has a supperb publicist.