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Sometimes it's not good enough to wait for 4 years.

Why?

There are "acts" that are accepted in the democratic game. One of them is voting each 4 years. There are some other things to do between those periods; Make proseletism of the option you defend, assist to debates, even arrange a general strike or making pacific manifestations.

Going any further is uncivilised. If you can't understand, you' ll probably do in a future.

Zooty: If you are interested in how "civilized" the Spanish revolution was, you should read a bit of "Pío Mora", although I am not sure if there is something in English by him. And Ah! I don' t think he is suspecious of being "conservative raised" or something... He was a member of anti-fascist terrorist group GRAPO (before maturing, of course...).

A group of those which, like you, think that "waiting 4 years somethimes is not good enough" (they continued their activity after Franquism, they are active now, actually...)

Both examples are cases of ununcivilised acts, yes.

I am quite sure that half page in wiki is not enough to understand how uncivilised the Spanish Revolution was... I don't think taking priests and nuns to the town square and cut their throats is civilised. I don' t think that rioting the properties of the "rich people" (after slaughtering them) is civilised. Search a bit more, and then come back to the thread.

As for the French Revolution... Are you really being serious about how "civilised" it was?

Anyway, I don' t think that a revolt to finish with monarchy 200 years ago works fine as an example of what is happening today in a XXIst century democratic country as Greece... but if you think that if anytime people is not happy with the government should do what the antisystem groups are doing in Greece, then... well... You are wrong.

Yes. Wait 4 years till the next elections. That is what civilized people use to do.

Petter:

A) How can you know it's a "National" reaction?

I don' t know how big Athens is. Let' s say it has a million people. 20,000 rioters would be a lot (I am sure there are much less). 1,000,000 between 20,000 makes that the ratio is 1 angry person per 50 non angry people. I think it' s not enough to think that the feeling is so "global" that the prime minister has to resign.

I think somebody should invent a way so people could chose its rulers. I don' t know... people could make a meeting, each certain time, let' s say, 4 years, and decide which of the different people who has applied to be elected is the best option.

Oh wait! They already invented that! It' s called "democracy". And democracy means that you must respect what people elected for 4 years. Apparently it' s something that anti-system groups can't understand.

Wow! The closest thing to "pixar" I' ve ever seen! very funny!

I know! I would have never made fun about "this" if I didn't previously know that you don' t care... Actually, I think we had this same "discussion" in msn!

Well... Allow me to re-phrase. Nikolas does not have a big nose. Has an aircraft carrier in the middle of his face!

Conclussion: We must learn to play piano. If it worked for a horrible big nosed guy as Nikolas, it can work to everybody!

It's always the same, but it's hard to blame those who are throwing the stones.

What???

For me, the "coincidence" is that the "killed person" allways is, from a group of 30 or 40 rioters, "the innocent guy who was walking there, doing nothing..."

The corpse never does anything... Allways the others... allways caught there for being unlucky... 

Well, Darth... If a mob surrounds your car, you can call this guy:



And I partially dissagree with the "Mobs are stupid". Well... I agree that they are, but I' ve found myself in riots and I've left the place asap... I don' t really see it as an "excuse" (I know you are not telling it is an excuse...) but it is a point for my theory of "this never happens to "normal" people".

Dissatisfied with the situation? Can' t they wait till the next elections? Burning cars and making riots is not the way to show you dissaprove a situation, specially in a democratic country.

I mean... when were the last elections? If they were not that long, deal what "you" (Greece) voted.
If they were a long of time ago, the next elections can't be far. Wait, go, vote, and try to change the situation as civilized people do.

I wonder how media would see this if the situation was exactly the same but with extreme right doing the riots and not extreme left... "Heroes" would surelly turn into "vandals" soon. For me, both situations are vandalic.

When things like this happens, I allways have the same feeling, which is sorta: "Ouch! those polices are beasts! How can they have such an easy trigger? Wow!... Eeeeerm... Yes... but.. But I think that things like that are never going to happen to me, since I don' t like to mess in that situations".

Same here. Death allways sucks... But seems that death finds those who like to tempt their fortune.

I' ve read that as the "police version". And then, a battery of "witnesses" telling that the police, basically, executed the guy. O_O

I' ve read different versions about "the shooting". Well... to be honest, the Spanish media is basically saying that the policemen ejecuted the guy for doing nothing, because they feel in the mood of killing someone that day.

I don't believe it... I am not that naïve to think there there are no cowboys in every policial corp in every country, but I simply can believe that one day a policeman wakes up and says "Okay, I am going to shoot to the first kid I see".

Can someone tell me what happened? Short brief, please, I don' t want to read the links

Indeed, Akatosh... What is this thread about, Nik? We can only send our sympathies and hope nothing *really*  bad happens (apart from the unfortunate incident with the dead teenager...)

So... That. Hope everybody is ok and it ends asap.

Religion, like anything else, can be twisted for evil ends.  You can kill a person with a butter knife if you want, but that's not its purpose, just as you can take harmless passages in the bible and make them into justifications for hatred.  This is a human flaw, not a bible flaw.

So, if it can' t solve human flaws, what does it work for? Solving that is something I would expect for something "divine inspired". Basically, what bible does, provoques, is undistinguishable from anything "non divine". I still have no clue, not only of its divinity, but also of its purpose.

Even Natcho came to the conclusion that christian religion is open-minded and its best points in behalf are the solid morality and respect for others.

I never said that, I think, and if I did... Sorry, I don't agree! I said that the bible is so opened that it will basically serve as a "sounding board". SSH parents were basically good people, so, their beliefs made then good (but with a "devine support"). Their sons are good and I pressume their grand daughters will be good as well. If you are evil, Bible (which basically is a big "Roschard") won't make you better.... You will go on being evil (but again, with devine support).

So... why does it work for? If Bible was making good people allways I would never complain, even considering it's false. But it is not. I am quite sure that Religion does not affect at all.

Bible also works for putting bombs in abortist medical centers, burn people, make crusades, blast Buses in Tel-Aviv... And that people is convinced that they are acting under the commitement of God/Allah/Yahvé... I would preffer no religion at all in the world. So, good people would see it as a merit and bad people would see their acts as what they are: Coward and unjustified.

Bah... An international commando is an international commando. Free germans allowed as well.

Aaaaah... memories from The Ardennes...

Sorry the guys who were there and didn' t receive your photoshop... I was just browsing photos and picking the first ones I found.

P.S: Oh! Ron.... I don't know where you do life, so, I simply put the capital city... Sorry if it's a mistake, I have the tags in another layer, so I can change it easily