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We were discussing different things... You went by the political/cultural side and I went via the geographical one... We don' t even dissagree. It' s okay. 

Chrille: Yes.

Eric: Don' t make fun of my concerns about the space in the car.    :'(

And some of us will be there a bit earlier to kill the time between the flight and the car renting! 

Yes, I understand that... if that implies that you are going to go to the catacombs after 1100, with Darth, after he has rented the second car.

But my "concerns" where just if you (with Erin and Mills) had the thought of coming to Paris BEFORE Darth rents the car.

If you don' t... then it' s all ok, and perfectly clear!  Sorry for messing it all! 

The thing is that I agree... I didn't had my opinions clear the first days, because of ignorance, but I tried to gather as much as info as possible and now I basically agree. Russia entered in another country (Which in my dictionary is "invasion") and fucked up things... Not only for protecting the ossetians, but also the following days, after the cease fire treaty, and just because Putin is an asshole and wants his country to be as powerfull and it was when he was young.

But I keep my opinion (Well, anyone who knows a bit of geography would agree) Georgia is not Europe (Geographically talking)

It's common that when is needed to put a boarder in a mountain, the line is set along its highest points of the mountain chain. Georgia boarder with Russia is at the highest elevations of the caucassian mountains, which points, together,  form a line... Everything at the south is Asia. Everything at the north is Europe.

I don' t know what happens in your country, but if I lived 10 meters below the highest point of a mountain, in the skirt that belongs to a valley called "Europa valley" I would say that I live in the European Valley... I wouldn't say "I live 90% in the European valley, but a bit in Asia valley" or "I partially live in Europe and Asia valley"... It' s silly.

Maybe you, the ones who have been deffensive about those FACTS are the ones who should examine your opinions. I wouldn' t ask for someone to be European for helping him if he is suffering an unfair treat. I would try to help or I would sympathise with him NO MATTER the place he COMES FROM. It is you who associated my "they are not european" with "They are not european, so, they don't deserve my help". That thinking has never been in my head. Maybe was it in yours, in an unconscient level, Snarky? I don' t know... I think not! but you should think twice before calling someone you don't know xenophobe.

I am sorry Jess, Chrille, DM and myself talked so much about this in msn that I assumed you know so much about the issue as we do.

So, I am going to explain it:

I will rent car A the 13th. The car will be parked somewhere in Paris till 15th.

The 15th you arrive at 0700. You will be in Charles de Gaulle Airport. IF YOU COME to PARIS, in Paris there will be Disco, Quintaros, Chrille, Darth Mandarb, Eric, Jess, Ivy, Fruit tree, Lore and Nacho... And only "my" car. 10 people for just 5 seats.

So, the problem should be for 5 people to go from Paris to the airport (where Darth is going to rent the second car, at 11:00)

From 11:00 08/15/2008 till the end of mittens there will be two cars, so, 10 seats for 10 people. My only concern is how to take 10 people to the Airport (where we will rent the second car) with only one car. It' s not a big problem, I guess... there are cabs, metro, trains, busses... Maybe I want to have everything tied and I frightened everybody with my paranoias! 

Chrille, car A is rented by me the 13th.

I am not sure if everybody agrees in visiting the catabombs on 15th... It might be a bit rushed... And remember "car b people" feelings... they might be totally tired after such a long flight.

Dunno why, I can' t modify my messages.

Clarification: Jess, when I said "no space in the car" I meant only for the trip from Paris to Charles de Gaulle Airport. 

If we (10 people) are in Paris, we wouldn' t have space in the cars because the car can only be rented in Charles de Gaulle airport at 11 o clock. We would be in Paris, let's say, at 10 o clock, being 10 people with only one car...

And the award for the biggest effort in developing a thread goes to... Well... I don't know.

But I know where it is NOT going to go. 

Yes! I remember I commented with Chrille the "alltogether to the catacombs on 15th option" and he told me "would you like to the Paris sewers after a 6-hour flight?" Yes...now I remember we agreed it shouldn't be a good option.

And... after thinking a bit, bringing the "b car people" to Paris has some other cons... If I go making trips from CDG to Paris... we wouldn' t have space in the cars to go from Paris to CDG!!! (Remember, we wouldn' t have the second car till 1100 on 15th...)

I will be checking the forums till the last moment to know which decission you' ve taken.

We must decide that now Chrille... I originally thought that "people from B car" was going to come much later... I don' t really know what to do.

Possibilities:

a) Quintaros, Disco, Darth, Chrille, Lore and Nacho awaking at a nasty early hour to make a welcome committee to the guys comming to the airport. Then we all go to the Chateau. We would arrive before being able to dispose our rooms, but that' s not a big problem:
Pros: We would be together soon. Cons: Less time in Paris, nasty wake up time, we would arrive to the Chateau too early.
b) Make a small welcome committee(Me, Darth, and Quintaros, probably) that will bring the "B car guys" to Paris... Be there for a time, make a walk, eat... and then all together go to the Chateau, approx at 1400.
Pros: Comfy for the "B car guys". Cons: Uncomfy for the people in charge of the "small welcome committee", who should have to do the CDG trip twice.
c)Tell the guys from the "B car" to come to Paris.
Pros: Relax for the people of the "A car". Cons: "B car people" would have to manage to find us, probably have to pay for cabbies, and we should have to go to CDG again to rent the "B car" (Darth Mandarb rented the car in CDG)
d)People of the "B car" waiting for us to go for them at a not so early time (1100). Pros: Perfect for "A car people". Cons: Boring for "B car people".

I don' t mind to go for "option B" if somebody comes with me...

EDIT: Jess, no need you to get anxious about the GPS, I am quite sure we will be able to get two by the end of the day...

Nah, I agree with Snarky. I am a xenophobic and a nazi....  And a homophobe too

EDIT: Spelling...

I don' t really know this started! Someone said "Oh, no! I hope you europeans do not start with a war in your territory again!" Then I replied "Georgia is not Europe". Then Snarky said it is... And I don' t really remember the rest. All I know is that the discussion is worthless indeed, since it doesn't matter... Nobody is less, or more, for being european, I guess...

Anyway, the whole thread is pointless, since war is over. And third world war between the Russians and the States seems will have to wait, Stupot!

Sure Waves... The feel of being closer to a country can be so strong that we put those feeling aside to tell "who" belongs to Europe or not.

That's why we use the geography.

That' s why Georgia is basically Asian. I don' t know why Snarky is being so fundamentalistic about that...  :

As Tuomas points out, Georgia lies on the border between Europe and Asia, with parts in Europe according to the Caucasus mountain definition.

Also, it's a Christian country with historical ties to Greece and the other European countries bordering the Black Sea going back several millennia. Culturally and politically, it arguably is more European than Asian.

"Parts in Europe" is not "It' s geographically Europe", as you said previously... It just means that "Some parts (the fewer) are in Europe".

About history, culture, etc... It's  difficult to set a line, I think. For example, I consider the USA closer to Europe historically and culturally than Albania, or Turkey... Same with Israel, which looks to me completelly Western. It' s difficult.

Jess, I think we are having the same problem with our GPS We downloaded a file that apparently is a Michelin France guide for GPS, but who knows... It might be porn, as use to happens with downloaded files... No matter what they are expected to be, they allways end being porn (Which is good, 90% of the times).

So... what do we do, guys? Do we ask the people to stay close to the arrivals gate in CDG untill we arrive there, around 9 o clock?

Mmmm... If you are going to be that early in Paris, Chrill, it should be nice if you meet the others and you three go out to have a drink together... The problem is that Quintaros is flying by now, so, impossible to chat to him via msn, and Disco, who was at SSH' s home, might be travelling right now to France as well... So, who knows; Maybe you can call them, or leave a note at their hotel.

The cool thing is that we are quite close, in the same area... 

Outdated? It' s a geographical map showing where the phisical frontiers of Europe are... A bit silly, I must admit, since we are just a little peninsula of Asia. Saying that Urals and Caucasian mountains are the frontier is a bit arbitrary, methinks.

Anyway, if we agree that the Urals and the Caucasian mountains are the limits the map won't be outdated unless there is a cataclism... 

It' s at the south of the Caucasian mountains which are accepted as the boarders of Europe... It can appear in some European maps, like Asian Turkey does, as well, but it' s not Europe.