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Sorry to go off topic. Best of luck with your game strangechicken.

Thanks mate!

Yeah thats very true, and iI guess i'm speaking from the rose colored glasses of nostalgia, I remember being pissed off because Kings Quest 7 has too high specs for my  computer (Good memories), but still I am sure there are people out there who'd love the genre, but because of its low public status (I mean general joe average public here) Don't yet know the genre exists. For example I stuck my 8 year old niece on a few of the old "Humongous Entertainment" Games and they kept her entertained for hours.

I will continue to read this thread and learn more from your views, but for now I have an adventure game to make.

I think for sierra, from what I see they tried to make their company something it wasn't, they tried to make million dollar projects like "Phantasmagoria," which were incredibly overhyped but fell short. Phantasmagoria is ok for what it is, the issue was it wasn't truly an interactive movie in the true sense of the term, and they Sierra were trying to make full scales movie, cinematic type games; so in a way some of their stuff was their own undoing.

Its a shame they sold sierra tho, beause when they closed down, they shut down so many projects, like a new space quest and Leisure suit larry game. But it may not have been the smartest thing for them just to ignore them, brings tears to my eyes when I see the "Sierra" logo on something like "Ice Age: The game" or such movie related cash in products.

Adventure games are never dead, while theres technology to make them, some people will still make great content "If you build it, they will come!" The issue is, I love the genre so much, I just wish there were more commercial releases so many more can come to share the same love for them, I just want to share the joy of adventure gaming, after all I find it is the best genre, because tho they have fundamental elements, there is really no limit to the genre of adventure gaming, it can be on any topic or subject matter with any story. Action games seem to just spew a script out as an after thought to their combat system (IE. Resident Evil: WOw a bunch of crazed scientists making a bunch of zombies for an underground government project to raise super soldiers, That plot hasn't been plot line of half of every zombie film released since Romero and Pre-romero"

People seem to have misconstrued my intentions here, my intentions where good. I came here to find out your views on why people said that adventure gaming is "Dead" I have never said it was "dead". Nothing can ever truly die!  I'm not trying to be condescending. Adventure gaming has a small but loyal fan base, and it wasn't to show my qualifications, it wasn't about qualifications, it was about to show you who I am, (someone based as a screen writer will view things differently than say, someone who works in I.T. ALA the guys who wrote the Longest Journey.  EG when i did courses and screen writing, they have a completely different philosophy and ideals from writing for the stage for instance.)

If you want my personal opinion I find a degree in theatre to be rediculous, because its an artform, and to have a piece of paper to say your an artist is ironic to the very foundation of art.

I'm new here, and tho you've probably seen this thing discusses many a time, I HAVE NOT! Be patient with me, I've been patient with you here, so please lets all respect each other this is a grown up forum, not a school yard discussion on whose weener is bigger.

Did i ever say Aristotle/Horace was the main tenants of everytihng, NO. I said they were resonant in shakespeare work and people of the time (they broke A LOT of rules, I wasn't saying it was solid, simply had resonance) I used the term "Tragedy" in context to "revenge tragedy" in the English Renaissanse -I shoud have clarified that- but by the time of death of a sales man the whle ideal had completely died out replaced by things like the well made play structure etc (Indecorous acts were shown on the stage etc.) In no way whats so ever does death of the salesman have anything to do with aristotle! Oedipus Rex was more strongly aristotelean, because it follows it very smoothly (indecorous acts like the queens suicide off stage as is the incest and oedipus' defies the gods prophecy, so he is part of his undoing: which would bring the moral point "Do not defy the gods or bad things will happen to you!" (It was written around the time more and more people were becoming athiest" But can we stop discussing theatre, this topic is not "the problem with Clasical theatre/litereature in 2010." But if i can say something, My degree is not "in progress as you say" I've actually completely finished my Major completely. (Tho I am considering doing another year of uni within  the education area to qualify me as a high school teacher, but thats another story).

I'd also like to point out the case of "OceanSpirit Dennis" parodies, sure the kid was an absolute tit, but is it fair to hate on him just because he is obviously a frustrated and somewhat confused kid!? All i'm saying is there is a reason why i've only publicly spoken on the boards now. I'm starting to feel more welcome as time wears on, but the welcome party was rather foreboding.

But enough, Horace has been dead for about 2000 years, I don't think he cares about people debating who did or did not write his book. I didn't come here to discuss such things, so can we move back to topic please!?

I remember playing it when I had win98. Not an expert on the technical side of things but maybe try it under win98 compatability?

Don't remember though if I ran it through dos or just win98. Sorries!

Yeah i'm running on vista, its the most non-compatible system of windows ever made!  Especially annoying because I had to buy stuff like broken sword all over again because the copy-protection was only scripted on OS's up to XP!

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Discworld 1,2 and discworld noir should be mentioned as well.

Oh and innocent until caught was nice.

I actually got them, but I actually need some help there.. (well i don't have noir). I have an original CD Version of Discworld 2, but when I run it in doxbox its extremely glitchy and jumps a lot, and it really cuts up the dialogue, is there a better way to run it?

My intention is not to be arrogant, it is more so to explain where my view point comes from it is ones background that does explain his view point! I wrote what I do to explain my context in the argument, not to prove anything, Just so it makes it easier to clarify.

"Horace was a Roman poet and satirist whose works are again considered ‘classics’ in the canons of Western literature. He was a passionate writer of Odes which were often dedicated to issues of love, friendship and patriotism, while his Epistles documented his observations of Roman society, literature and philosophy. Of his later works, the most influential in the field of theatre theory is entitled the Ars Poetica (or The Art of Poetry) which was probably written around 20 BC. This piece of writing unashamedly extolls the writings of the Greeks â€"especially Aristotle â€" and Horace takes Ari’s ideas and interprets them for aspiring Roman poets. He is the FIRST to try and create a set of rules for the theatre by borrowing from and clarifying Aristotle’s often vague discussions of the tragic form."  Written by Dr Janet Mcdonald PHD...

and i'm sorry but the "Horace was a genius and some how just ingeniusly created these ideas outta thin air with no catalyst or cause" doesn't hold up

I am not  trying to sound at all pretencious, i'm a laid back happy go lucky dude. I was just simply explain the context in which my knowledge base exists, far from trying to grab attention, I realise it may have seemed that way, but it was far from my intentions. In fact in the world of stand up prtention is the kinda thing that can kill your career, because stand ups are intrinsic but straight forwards people and they see thru bullshit.

I haven't dismissed anything anyones said here, I've taken it all on board, i've found it an enlightening and intesting debate it would be totally arrogant to not listen when I started a topic to hear others oppinions on the matter.

thus it became about Horace for no apparent reason, so can we get back on topic please? I created this topic because I feel strongly about this stuff (adventure gaming), and i genuinely want to hear your oppinions on it.  if i wanted to simply state an authoritarian oppinion, i'd change my name to Ben Croshaw and start a blog.

Also this hasn't been the most hospitible welcoming from the community: it isn't hard to see why some of the view points are being expressed in here http://www.agdiforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19=14626&start=0

Because Ars Poetica is not the same as Aristotles Poetics, different book, Horace brought his own politics to aristotles work, while most of his duty was as translator he did however change a few things (Aristotle liked a bit of comedy, horace despised comedy and actually started the comedy is inferior to tragedy thing).

Here see for yourself, this is a section on comedy from aristotles "Poetics"

As, in the serious style, Homer [supposed author of the Illiad and the Odyssey] is preeminent among poets, for he alone combined dramatic form with excellence of imitation, so he first laid down the main lines of Comedy, by dramatising the ludicrous instead of writing personal satire....But when Tragedy and Comedy came to light, the two classes of poets still followed their natural bent: the lampooners became writers of Comedy, and the epic poets were succeeded by Tragedians, since the drama was a larger and higher form or art.

... Comedy is, as we have said, and imitation of characters of a lower type-not, however, in the full sense of the word bad, the Ludicrous being merely a subdivision of the ugly. It consists in some defect of ugliness, which is not painful or destructive. To take an obvious example, the comic mask is ugly and distorted, but does not imply pain. The successive changes through which Tragedy passed, and the authors of these changes are well known, whereas Comedy has had no history, because if was not at first treated seriously ...

(Aristotle, ‘Poetics,’ (translated by SH Butcher) in Bernard F Dukore (ed.), Dramatic theory and criticism: Greeks to Grotowski, HBJ College Publishers, 1974, New York, pp. 34â€"5.)


However good old horace found it far too indecoruous to be considered true theatre, it wasn't tragedy and he therefore claimed that tragedy is by far insuperior to comedy, not exactly what aristotle himself said if ya get my drift. Old horace liked to change an odd passage here and there to fit his personal agenda.

So I am still talking about Ars Poetica as it is the most modern classical version of poetics, its still Ari's work so why not refer to the most moden version? after all Neoclassical france actually Use Ari's work thru horaces translation the most

Then why a latin title for a work written in greek?

Just because he was a student of Aristotle doesn't mean he was greek does it? I could be a student of the work of Samuel Beckett and the man is long dead, the period of Horace was really about them digging up old material to understand how the world works in both a physical and metaphysical way, most notably the works of people like aristotle and pythagoras, horace was roman. It was one of those "whats old is new again"  and we can learn from it type eras. Kind of like the english renaisanse, the age of re-enlightenment. so horace took Ari's words, translated and reinterpreted them for roman poets and playwrights, but really it was all pretty much the work of aristotle, he is really the creative force behind "Ars Poetica" horace was fundementally just a translator hence why in academic circles they are called the NEO-classical rules, not simply the classical rules.  

I hope that cleared things up for you.

You meant Horace, didn't you?

Nope,  Because really all the concepts horace talked about where handed down by Aristotle; Horace was a student of Aristotle and Aristotle was in turn a student of plato, Horace did change a few things here and there but fundamentally it is the same foundation and roughly the same ideas and concepts (plays must be 5 acts, Etc.).

but I will agree to disagree

and that is what academia is all about, because every academic knows there IS no definitive truth, only different perspectives of the one event.

No offence intended!

Sorry bout that, but its not uncommon for people to try to discredit theatre as viably academic, the other day I had a nurse tell me my degree was ultimately pointless and just about wearing funny costumes and entertaining children. That's not what theatre, well the theatre I prefer to do is about; and in fact I could make the argument without theatre the medical degree would not exist as it is today,  because, the initial disection of bodies, where the renaissanse depictions of the human body were debunked (Much to to dispair of the catholic church) in ticket shows, hence where the term "Operating theatre" comes from, otherwise we'd still think the vagina was an internal penis, the body is made of 4 humors, and that women are irrational because hysteria festers in their womb (Hence hysterectomy).

ah yeah! in Australia indie film is huge,  but than its really all the new content  because commercially *looks down* they only make on average 7 commerical films a year! So most everything else is an independant project, and whats mickey mouse about a degree in theatre and film, its actually based on a mixture of historical accuracy whic provides context, psychology to understand the human condition and relate to our audience, I am NOT trained as an actor, I wish to point that out as many seem to have ono clear differintiation, I am an academic, a dramaturg, writer, Historian etc: that is my study focus, and tho the plot changes, they're still following the same conventions set by Aristotle in the "Ars Poetica" (tho a few rules are distrupted here and there). So they are in essne the same play, different characters.

In the same instance that there is a thousand horror films abotu a lemented teenage high school girl who becomes an undead or supernatural killing machine and kills her tormentor in her high school (Carrie probably the prime example), in fact walk into any video rental store and go to the horror/thriller section, and you will find at least 10 films in the first 5 minutes with exactly that description, tragedy is in essense that!

and I respect your oppinion, but in some thing I believe we will just have to agree to disagree

Well for the record I can actually acurately say tragedies are all the same: Because I have a graduate diploma In Creative arts (Basically Multimedia, theatre, film etc)  majoring in theatre and the history and they were cookie cutout formulas, in fact Shakespeare so called greatest play "Hamlet" is a rip off of Thomas Kyd's Play "The spanish tragedy" down to the ghost who is being avenged and watches everything!  In fact there talk amongst scholars that there was a play called "Ur-hamlet" that shakespeare directly copied; we must remember there was no real copyright so they stole absolutely everything off each other, you gotta remeber there was no real plot twists, the theatre was a political structure.. so every tragedy IS in essense the same play, just pointing out something different politically at the time. There was a reason both the monarchy and church innitially viewed theatre as "dangerous."

My lecturer was a historian who had a PHD in Shakespeare and Renaisanse history andwas head of many academic boards, but thats off topic! I never said shutter island was bad, In fact I loved it, Di Caprio is probably up there with Christopher Lloyd with my favorite actors, but it still has striking similarities to Calgari's twist and plotline, Except calgari was probably a lot deeper because it was an "Expressionist" film, and Shutter Island, while a good poignant movie and nod to films of yesteryear, was more so main stream entertanment.


Obviously also.. while I admittedly don't have a full picture of the adventure niche genre companies.. but as someone with a university training of the entertainment industy and who has worked and various facets of the entertainment industry professionally (Mostly thru stage work, a few varied multi media jobs). I think it would be inaccurate to say i have the "wrong picture" I just don't have the insight into that specfic area of the industry, and thats accurarate but i do have a very good knowledge of the basics, but admittedly I am simply a purveyor of the fine of art of adventure gaming have been most of my life, I'm not the Be-all and end-all argument i'm just stating my view as i see it and I think thats a fair thing to do in a public forum.

I will not disagree that telltale outdoes Sierra, I will be completely honest, Sierra's writing was cliche and spewed out, if it were an action games dialogue, it would be in the same vain as "house of the dead." they weren't the strongest writers around, and i'm not saying that there isn't new good content, i'm just saying that its a sad thing that its so few and sparce, when in my era it wasn't h ard to find something fun to play, now we have to grovel and scavange for someone to release something for us...

Finally the indie film scene is not dead, its just what it is, Independant: thus not that heavily publicised, most major cities and EVEN rural cities have a number of indie film festivals, and some even get incuded in the major film festivals such as cannes, and the Indie scene IS booming, where did I ever say it wasn't? I have seen a lot of good product come out of AGS, and there is probably still a lot to come out of it, but for years before finding AGS I had nothing. My debate is more about commercial companies than the indie scene.

The issue is even with a booming independant community you'd rarely get anyone without a predisposition to adventure gaming in some form, so all we can do here is preach to the converted, where commercial games, due to their marketing and commercial status has more ability to reach out and find new fans and help the community grow.

But as I said earlier in this post, this is just my oppinion, i'm not saying you have to agree or disagree, its just what it is: An oppinon, and again I believe it is fair to do that on a public forum

yeah, i've been getting a lot of flack about the "..." I work as a professional comedian, so a lot of what i write actually meant to be said verbally, I sometimes forget to switch back when i'm doing written text. It's habit I guess, I use "..." as a form of inflection, also the ammount of academic reflective journals i've written probably influence the bad habbit.

I hope these are WiP screenshots, the 2nd background is really blurry and makes my eyes hurt almost as much as having to read your posts with all those ellipses makes my head hurt. I hope the in-game texts are in proper English. (Please consider that there are people who can "hear the voice in their head" when reading a text and that your writing style makes that voice sound like an endless monotonous drone.)

And since I love mentioning it: AGS has built-in screen shot functionality, so there's no need to use Printscreen or stuff, then crop them sloppily. (You'll want to implement that inside rep_ex_always though to make shots during cutscenes or dialogs.)

The dialog options are unreadable and in lores, clashing with the rest of the graphics.

Sorry for my harshness. Just my 2 cents.

Nope.. not harsh at all. thankyou for your honesty  as i understand it, it was proper critique and not criticism... and if i learnt anything in university if someone has an oppinon, listen, because they'll be the ones who influence the success of your product...

the game wil feature full voice acting as i stated in my original text so there is no need for hearing the voice in the head... I have that covered with human inflection etc.  I use a lot of elipses, because in my posts i'm running off the top of my head, so in a way it chronicles my thought process, its habbit from writing a lot of university reflective journals, sorry about that, but thankyou, I will take the things you mentioned on board and try to ween myself slowly out of elipses addiction

I'd just like to point out, i'm still looking for a few male voice actors, so if you'd like the volunteer, i'd be happy to hear from you

Sarah Palin? Who is she? Is she a character from adventure game?

Indeed... she is a comic character from Sierra's largely unknown "Presidential Quest"... tho instead of seeing a magic land in her mirror like in King's Quest she could magically see Canada out her window.... very humorous game... check it out when you get the time...

BACK ON TOPIC!

Oh and I looked into willy beamish... looks like mindless fun...I think i'll try to track down a copy GOG  or somewhere will probably have a copy

Looks good.. .has that old Indiana Jones (Circa. fate of atlantis) flair to it... I'll look forward to it... keep up the good work... you may if you haven't already... want to get a translator for it... tho AGS is a worldwide adventure game community... a majority of the users would be the english speaking variety....

I actually played thru Zak Mcracken ages ago.. I jsut don't have a copy anymore... I may check out that sequel tho... thanks for suggesting it 

That's no way to respond. If you're over 14 you should seriously reconsider your behaviour. Oh, and terrible use of emoticons...

Gabriel_Down, we had previous conversation with strangechicken. "bottom of the barrel" are his words...

albeit taken out of context for this... which is similar to Sarah Palin's comment on magazines "all of them"... you can change the question and apply it to anytihng... but it has no real context... its trivialising it... and my reference was to one hit wonder video game companies... "City Interactive" etc.. who make a select few low budget things... disband and are never heard of again... but can we stop show boating with our c**k's out... this forum thread is about this game announcement... not what i did or did not say in a prior thread...