Bad Market for Programmers

[Pelican]

Slackers usually don't make it through engineering or computer science...

That's because they all come to the dark side the Arts and Humanities. Come, slack with us and know the joys of slackage!

(Hey, I'm only half joking. About 25% of Engineers and 10% of Science students at my school can't handle the stress, so they switch faculties after first year and become Humanities students)

Heh, I used to do Computer Science. Now I'm doing Archaeology. Need I say more?Ã, 
(actually, its technically Science, but its more like Art/Humanities)

[Pumaman]

Strangely enough, where I work they're desperately trying to hire programmers, but are having great difficulty finding the right people. All the applicants seem to be either typical 'geeks' with no interpersonal skills, or nice people who just aren't technically competant.

If you can come across as being somewhere in between, you shouldn't have too much of a problem.

[Andail]

I'm gonna be a high school teacher, and in Sweden there's quite a lack of teachers, which will even deteriorate the next five years. I don't worry much about jobs.

It's interesting that so many AGS:ers are computer scientists...I'm aware of this being a computer game community, but still, I mean...hm.

Frikkin' geeks!

[Necro]

Well I guess I was lucky I got with a good company rather quickly, however once i left them I was looking for a job for AGES so I know what its like... and nearly all of them as said above do ask for 2-3 years experiance.

You pretty much have to rely on yourself and get your cv and details about yourself out there, i regestered with several agencies, plus online websites like the once mentioned above, as well as doing freelance work to get some work to show off, to begin with it was slow but after a while I had calls coming in quite often for interviews , bear in mind your normally up for interviews with potentially hundreds of others. I would definatly make sure your cv is proffesionally geared towards the job you want, as that is what they look at , and they may not look at past the first page, so the layout can be critical.

Also programming always seems to be geographical dependant, there are very few jobs in my area for example, and apparently tons in CJs...  I was once offered a job in scotland, and i live down in oxford.

[Takara]

On the good advice front... don't be afraid to apply for jobs which ask for experience you don't have.

They're asking because they want people who are competant, if you can demonstrate that you're skilled even without the experience they're still going to be interested.  This of course requires a well written CV so your skills are obvious.  Also, whilst you may not ideally suit the job they're advertising due to lack of experience, they may have something else suitable.

Takara.

[InCreator]

..or the people who hire don't know how to turn on computer at all!

At least where I live, key figures behind IT companies (personnel workers or simply managers)  are only able to read email or find pr0n. They don't know what they really need, so they trust papers.

Papers...

You may be a Mozart nowadays, but if you have no paper where it's written, no one lets you near the piano.

Of course, much depends on yourself.

What I have learned during my short life is - getting a job where you want - through Internet goes like this: you seek for the place, but instead of applying CV and waiting (often forever), you just pick up the phone (or even go there) - ignoring all the requirements you don't have - and charm the employer with your confident and pragmatic speech. This is only way it works. And may give instant results.
Sometimes the manager isn't too exited about getting through all those received applications/cv's too, especially if there's someone standing in front of him with this "want me to work for you? let's get the work done!"- attitude. Why bother?

[Darcness]

Well, let's see...

I am 27 now, graduated with an average of 97% at the computer college I went to in 1996, and to this day I am still looking for a programmking job, since all the places require you to have at least 2 years experience.

My question is: How the heck do they expect you to build up experience if everyone wants people with experience? Can't they just give guys a break?

[Snarky]

Alumni networks is your key to getting the job of your dreams.

The people who graduated your class a couple of years ago, and found a job then, are by now probably getting promoted, or looking for another job. In either case, there's an opening that matches your qualifications exactly. If your predecessor did a good job, they're probably quite keen to hire someone from the same school and same program.

Also, get a graduate degree. The difference in jobs available to you when you have a Master's compared to with just a Bachelor's is staggering. Try to find a different grad school from your university, and you can double your alumni network.

It's all about networking...

[TerranRich]

Boy am I glad I jumped ship from Computer Science to Web Design. I had been going to UMass Dartmouth from 2000-2002 for CS until I saw that graduates weren't getting crap for jobs, and my CS classes had about 30 people in them, growing year by year, instead of shrinking as is normal. I finally decided on Web Design in early 2004 and am not regretting it yet.

[Pumaman]

What I have learned during my short life is - getting a job where you want - through Internet goes like this: you seek for the place, but instead of applying CV and waiting (often forever), you just pick up the phone (or even go there) - ignoring all the requirements you don't have - and charm the employer with your confident and pragmatic speech. This is only way it works. And may give instant results.
Sometimes the manager isn't too exited about getting through all those received applications/cv's too, especially if there's someone standing in front of him with this "want me to work for you? let's get the work done!"- attitude. Why bother?

That might work with a few employers here and there if you're lucky, but in general if you phone them up they'll just ask you to send in your CV; and if you actually go along to the company office, they'll likely regard you as arrogant and tell you to get lost.

[quintaros at work]

What I have learned during my short life is - getting a job where you want - through Internet goes like this: you seek for the place, but instead of applying CV and waiting (often forever), you just pick up the phone (or even go there) - ignoring all the requirements you don't have - and charm the employer with your confident and pragmatic speech. This is only way it works. And may give instant results.
Sometimes the manager isn't too exited about getting through all those received applications/cv's too, especially if there's someone standing in front of him with this "want me to work for you? let's get the work done!"- attitude. Why bother?

That might work with a few employers here and there if you're lucky, but in general if you phone them up they'll just ask you to send in your CV; and if you actually go along to the company office, they'll likely regard you as arrogant and tell you to get lost.

I disagree.Ã,  I've just started a new job after a rather long job search, so I'll offer my 2 cents.

The trick is to get noticed by the guy with authority to hire you.Ã,  Generally you want to skip over the HR department altogether to speak to this person.Ã, 

You phone him and ask whether there's any opportunities for employment.Ã, 

He says "No but if you send a resume we'll keep it on file."Ã, 

You send the resume.Ã,  Then you phone back.Ã, 

"Hi I spoke to you last week about future employment opportunities with your company and was wondering if you've had a chance to look at my resume?"

"No I haven't...let me take a look now.Ã,  I see that you have some decent experience but there aren't any openings at the moment."Ã, 

You call him again a month later:

"Hi I spoke to you last month about the possibility of employment with your company.Ã,  You told me there wasn't anything at the time and I was wondering if anything new may have opened up."

And you repeat the next month.

The process kind of sucks but you are slowly making an impression on the guy.Ã, 

When a job opening does develop he'll remember you, review your resume, and give you a call.

[MoodyBlues]

*reads topic*  Oh em gee!  All is doomed for me, a poor computer science major!

*realizes she's also an English major*  Oh ho!  Something to fall back on!

*realizes that she doesn't want to be a teacher*  Crud.

[Ginny]

Heh, it's always terribly annoying to feel that your choices of career or study must be guided by the current market state. As corny as it sounds, I want to follow my heart in choosing my course in university and in the work area. It's a real shame that Computer Science majors are having trouble finding work.. I am thinking of going that direction myself, but nothing will probably stop me once I make the choice.
As for the interview tips, those may just come in handy later

PS. How's the physics-scientists market doing?

[Las Naranjas]

Pysicists might have a better shot, since there's not many physics students left [prompting recruitment drives in many countries]. Too many students saying "this looks hard, and I don't see an obvious job", but if there continues to be a dearth of graduates, that means there may well be places opening up in the teaching positions.

And anyway, programmers are a dime a dozen, we need more physicists. Do physics!

[Ghormak]

I considered physics... but I chose CS (and engineering) instead.

Maybe I should have chosen physics. There were only two new physicists the year I started, compared to ~50 CS people.

[MillsJROSS]

Here's the problem, we CS majors have. At least in my school, a lot of majors like Physics...where the graduating physicists are in the single digits, start out with many more.  Where do the many more go? Well, it would make sense for them to go into areas where the class requirements are similar, but the workload is, perhaps, not as hard.

CS and Physics, at least initially, share a lot of classes together...so when people realise that maybe Physics isn't for them they either don't get a degree at all, or they switch majors. And there's jolly good old CS to go to. And when  you think about it, most people who were persuing Physics have a problem solving mind, which lends itself to CS in the first place. So it's not as hard a switch as one might think.

There are other majors where the same thing applies.

As far as finding a job...well almost any job market is cyclical. And you have location to worry about. And ironically, you have to have experience to get a job somehow. But eventually, I'm sure those who try hard enough will eventually get a job and the experience they want or need. Other people will just do something else.

-MillsJROSS