Why is this age limit set dammit!?

[Pumaman]

I'm quite tempted to lock this thread, but it's running so high on irony already that to do so might cause the planet to implode.

[Ishmael]

...it needed a great effort to keep me from listing all that was wrong - so I kept to the feet - and an even greater effort to keep me from posting RTFM Though that would have been out of place, very badly...

I think we should now see what Blake comes back to all this with, and then let this matter fade away (unless something new, stop-the-press -class detail appears)... I think after all that reading (and I sincerely hope you read it all, fluke, there were more wise words than one argument thread usually needs) he should have got atleast some sort of image into his head about how to go on from this... And I hope the image is the one that praises community's advantage before induvidual's. Let us not be selfish.

[InCreator]

Amazing. A trolling kid starts a web war on moderators... (or Andail personally - as it seems more to me?)  and it results 5-page long thread with all kinds of replies and attitudes.

I avoided the thread aswell, just spectating it, because it sounded hilarious to me and I was quite tempted to post some ironic jokes, like "Yes! Let's ban all moderators! let's set age UPPER limit to 16!" or some lame text like that... heh.

About the Sonic pic that seemed to be the last trigger:

Critics Lounge is the part of forums I spend time on the most.
There's waaaay worse art posted sometimes. This Sonic wasn't so bad at all, on artistical side.
I'm not sure, but I think (or sense?) that Andail locked the thread because of same reason ---

No effort!

There's many artists posting their works, some unfortunately have no talent at all - and they still waste much time on trying to draw, and some others are just at the very start of the long way to mastering pixel art. They all try, usually quite hard, despite their n00b-ness.

There's some weird "extra info" that can be caught with critic's eye.
I can easily say if the image is good or bad, but I also can see how much hours and attempts did it take. It's not visible in any pixel but.... sixth sense? Not me, but many critics at CL somehow feel or sense it and usually judge by it. The starter will be helped, the master will be admired and the trolls will be flamed.

But this one was somewhat... I don't know... pointless mouse waste? Like maybe Fluke draws a bit better than random friend at school and just wanted to get attention and brag in forums, making a 5-minute pixel mess? Or something like that.

Also, the moderating request and some other pointless threads...

So, I'm quite sure that FlukeBlake wasn't harrassed in any way by moderators. In matter fact, all this attention and debating from (veteran) members and moderators was undeserved also.

If we'd dance around every troll in such high scale, the forums would become a kindergarten! Boycott would be more fair reaction, IMO.

Then again, saying "i'm offended by ...", "discrimination", "racism" or "gay" in any of gen-gen threads' titles or content make it megapopular anyway

[Krazy]

Well, in the immortal words of Bugs Bunny, that's all folks.

That's Porky Pig, no one is allowed to register on their forum if they can't quote correctly, how did you even pass the sign up test question about quoting media?

[SSH]

Then again, saying "i'm offended by ...",

There are people who are offended by ellipsis?

[Andail]

InCreator, well said. The key word in the critics lounge is effort.
In the rules, it clearly says that the forum is to be used when you can no longer improve it by yourself (given that it is in need of improvement). This means, it must show that you have dedicated a lot of time and effort on the piece yourself. Otherwise it's rather arrogant to expect other people to do it for you.

Are you a bad painter? No problem. Explain to us the process behind your picture, explain why you can't improve it yourself, show sketches and concepts, give us reasons to believe that you have worked on it to a point where you stand clueless.

InCreator speaks of a "sixth sense". I think it's rather fitting. I've been at the critics more than the average Joe - I was also a board moderator there before going global - and in my real life, I'm on my way of becoming an art teacher. I feel rather qualified to make certain decisions when it comes to being encouraging versus saying "don't waste your own, or our, time".
Has the critics lounge ever discriminated "bad" art? I don't think so. Out of a number of internet art forums, it might be among the best for learning beginners.

But:
Do you have a history of arbitrarily starting pointless threads, most in which you manage to break one or more forum rules, and never return to in order to deal with advice and criticism, and instead being rude and impolite?
Then the critics won't accept your trolling more than any other forum.

Just my two cents.

PS: Oh, I also feel pretty tempted to put a period to this discussion - especially since it's been blown out of proportions for a long time - but then I thought: "what the heck, let's vent this forum thoroughly".

[=The=Brat=]

Anyway, I want you to consider my main point. You're a kid. Go be a kid.

about what m0ds said. I am 11 and i am on AGS but i do play with my friends its just that i live in a country town in Australia and its not that easy just to walk 3km to my nearest mates house(not to mention if I'm allowed to or not) thats why i use AGS coz theres nothing else to do except get bashed by my 17 year old brothers

thats my only problem keep up the good work

[Gilbert]

I'm quite tempted to lock this thread, but it's running so high on irony already that to do so might cause the planet to implode.

PS: Oh, I also feel pretty tempted to put a period to this discussion - especially since it's been blown out of proportions for a long time - but then I thought: "what the heck, let's vent this forum thoroughly".

I'll say: NEBA!1! (L00K!1! 1 K4N N0 5P3LL!1!)
... well, I'll say just thow this thread into the Popular Thread forum, soon it will die. (The purpose of that forum is to make popular threads unpopular, right? )

[TheYak]

My only real problem with the moderative response in Critics was that it didn't have much in the way of tact.  I don't disagree with the decision as I'm sure if he'd refined the picture himself, it would've improved greatly.  I'm just wondering why he didn't get a more appropriate response like the ones given in this thread: "The critic's lounge is for improving your creative works after you've made every effort to perfect it yourself (or are stumped as to how to improve it).  Here are a couple links to some Loomis lessons or a couple tutorials, or remember that it's meant to be a sprite, meaning ______."  If that's too verbose, a simple "I think you're better than the time it seems you put into this, read the forum stickies, refine, repost. Fin."

Everyone's got their own moderation style, but I think that you tend to lose a touch of your patience after dealing with the same phenomenon month in and month out.  And while FB dominated the General forum, he was new to the realm of Critics.

[Helm]

Not sure how you guys can look at a picture and magically deduct how much effort has been put into it. Not when the artist is 12. For all we know, he struggled over that horribly misshapen sonic picture all afternoon. However, if I were a moderator I'd still possibly lock the thread, as I don't see what it has to do with art (or music, or scripts or whatnot) that goes into making games. Not even indirectly. It's not even a sprite. But I understand the mods on critique lounge have been lax in enforcing that all pieces are related to games. I wouldn't be so much, but that's another discussion.

[m0ds]

It'd be good if ALL forum moderators could actually have a chat together once a week or once a fortnight on a specially designated irc channel or something. Afterall, secret mods change and move things that I'm sure a lot of the other mods aren't aware of - and will never know about either, plus we could all decide on best methods for dealing with these kinda things.

At the moment we are all working induvidually, it might be best to design some kind of "overall moderating procedure" to the boards..?

[Helm]

This place doesn't need all that, I think. Then again, during the early ags period one could say the same thing for moderators altogether. I don't know. I think it would be better for Flukeblake to be banned anyway.

[Dowland]

Banned? Thank the Lord, I wasn't 13 when I joined this community.

[Oliver]

Well I was, and I haven't had any problems with my age. And I didn't have any problems with all that "noob" thing.

[Pumaman]

I think it would be better for Flukeblake to be banned anyway.

But then Helm, if we did things your way, there'd only be 10 members left here

[passer-by]

This means, it must show that you have dedicated a lot of time and effort on the piece yourself.

Is this always the case? About time I mean, not effort. Some people work better in a limited time, while they may just practice...task-avoidance if they start a lot earlier than their work is due/expected.

I mean, how can you expect someone to give proper criticism when they draw Sonic The Hedgehog with down syndrome? This isn't a finger-painting class. Hell, I'm not the greatest graphic artist in the world (or on my block), but at least the spirtes in my games resemble things.

I'm not saying that it was a good picture or that I'm an expert either in practicing or criticising art, but I find that the critics at theÃ,  rennaissance/ impresionists'/ surrealists' / abstract etcÃ,  exhibitions must have sounded quite similar to your post...

But then Helm, if we did things your way, there'd only be 10 members left here

Just don't put a maximum age limit, OK?

[Nacho]

Let's avoid the time/effort issue... I think CL must be used if you're in a crossroad while doing a painting (maybe if you're making an sketch for a background and you don't want to go on with a bad composition, so you go to CL and ask for ways to improve it before making all the rest...) or in an alley, and you don't know how to go on.

I don't know if Fluebakake (sp?) was in that situation or not, but I think that the painting had so mistakes that explaining how to improve it step by step should have been messy. So, IMHO, linking him to some loomis tutorials was quite enough. Maybe locking it in spite leaving it die by itself was a little too much, but Andail is a great moderator and making this mess for just an argueable decission is (IMHO again) going too much.

[Chicky]

This thread is fun, like a rollercoaster.



wheeee!

[Pumaman]

Now I know why Yufster was so keen that we go to Thorpe Park at Brittens.

[Haddas]

It was obvious all along, CJ. You must have noticed.