Madeleine McCann

Meowster · Thu 10/05/2007 11:13:32

New leads, yay... hopefully these will turn out to be fruitful:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6641899.stm

This story is really saddening me...

Child abductions are awfully sad... and terrifying... the thought of anybody ever taking away one of my little babies just fills me with dread...

What angers me too, is that people feel justified in kidnapping and abusing children... and then murdering them. The very least they could do is let the child go. Why does it always end with murder?

How cruel and selfish these people are... they should be tortured for the rest of their days. Seriously, if that little girl is murdered, then the killer should tortured and ever-so-slowly killed, not before being raped in the ass of course. By dogs.

Anyway... I'm following this story closely. I still have a lot of hope that Madeleine is still alive...

Nacho · Thu 10/05/2007 11:14:55

Let' s be preppaired for the worse, hoping the best... $:-\$

Adamski · Thu 10/05/2007 12:14:02

What kind of parents leave a 3-year-old and two 2-year-olds alone in a foreign country while they go out to eat?

Meowster · Thu 10/05/2007 12:20:13

Most parents.

They were very close to the apartment, they knew their children and probably knew that they'd stay soundly asleep for the entire duration of their meal. They checked on them every half hour.

Most parents will happily leave their children upstairs, sleeping on their own, without checking them the entire night. It would have seemed no different from doing that, really.

It was a family friendly resort and considered very safe for children.

The greatest risk was of one of them falling out of bed or having a bad dream and crying for their mummy... the chances of a man coming along and stealing one of them were extremely low.

To blame the parents is such a horrible and pointless thing to do. Anybody with a child should know that nobody ever really does parenting by the book; we all take some risks, because they never seem particularly risky at the time. Most of us will never experience a child being taken from us, so it's not something you tend to worry about when you're so close to them anyway...

Adamski · Thu 10/05/2007 12:26:50

Most parents? I don't think so. I sure as hell know mine wouldn't have done that. Yes, it isn't their fault their child was kidnapped, but by doing something as highly negligent as they did they certainly gave whoever took Madeline a grand window of oppertunity.

But that observation is obviously not the be-all-and-end-all of this and it's certainly not some "ooh cosmic justice for the silly parents to learn their lesson" point, but no one really seems to be mentioning this so I thought I would.

Sam. · Thu 10/05/2007 12:35:21

If my parents did that, they'd have taken a baby monitor with them. I suppose that would have solved the problem, but its difficult to blame this situation on bad parenting.

I find it very difficult to be optimistic for a situation like this, I cannot recall it ever ending well in the past.

LimpingFish · Thu 10/05/2007 18:25:16

I think we may be cutting the parents too much slack.

The bar where they were was 50 yards from the apartment and surrounded by a wall. To re-enter the apartment block, they had to walk around the perimeter of the outer wall, and enter through the rear entrance.

Madeline's room was on the opposite side of the apartment building, so it wasn't even visible from the bar. Plus it was on the ground floor. And the resort had childcare facilities which the parents declined to take advantage of.

And, not to sound nasty, but we only have the parents word that they checked every half hour.

This is a horrible situation, and we can only hope that this little girl is found safe, but I would ask serious questions of the parents.

And the british media need to step back and let the authorities do their job. Demanding progress reports and non-existent photofits, while undermining the portuguese police's abilities, isn't helping anyone.

Nikolas · Thu 10/05/2007 18:31:12

Wow!

I didn't know that about the parents!

I have tosay that I've NEVER left the kids anywhere in my life alone! NEVER!

I have had to carry 2 sleeping kids from the car to the 2nd floor, but never ever considered leaving one to the car while I go up and leave the other one!

Go out to eat and leave the kids alone? This is plainly STUPID! MORONIC! Sorry! It just angers me greatly!

I would love this thing to end well, but I will blame bad parenting (or a bad choice maybe, as bad parneting may not be the case really), on this one. Sorry

EDIT:

Actually I have left dimitris once while going out on the next floor (he was sleeping on the 1st floor and I was on the second, in our aunt). We had, of course the baby monitors and Evi kept going down every 20 minutes or so... Just to be perfectly fair and clear...

SinSin · Thu 10/05/2007 18:52:16

As a parent i simpathise entirely with the parents if my little girl Who is 2 went missing yes i would have gone spare
Now onto the facts
The area was a secure family area and the parents were "on holiday"
This in my esteemed opinion is still no reason for the couple to go to a bar and leave a 3 year old behind. if they had wanted a drink and something to eat why not use room service, there is a phone in most hotel rooms
Yes they were wrong to leave the child. And yes i believe that they were most negligent if not ignorant to thier NEW and Unknown temporary residance.

?!!!!?

there is something fishy about this whole story tho hmmmm

Parents go on holiday with child
Parents leave child alone
Criminal singles out that one room out of the whole hotel
Kid goes
Parents react
No other Hotel patrons are affected (this states that the criminals must have known where they were going and why )

The kid must have been preyed on there is no two ways about it
arrrrggghh the whole Parents leave kid bit is annoying me tooo much i have to leave this before i think too deeply about it

Becky · Thu 10/05/2007 19:03:54

The worst part is that they didn't just leave this one kid, they left her and two 2-year old twins as well. Anything could have happened that would have woke them all up and caused them to start crying and wondering where mummy and daddy are, and checking in every half an hour is not enough when there was readily available creche facilities.

My parents didn't start leaving me and my younger sister alone without some form of supervision in a strange place until we were actually able to understand where my parents were going and how long they would be.

Pumaman · Sat 12/05/2007 11:38:14

There are two parts to the media reporting of this story that I don't like:

1. The lack of criticism of the parents, as you guys have mentioned. It's pretty irresponsible to leave such a young child alone for that length of time, especially when childcare facilities are available to use.

2. I'm bored of the media going on and on about this story. Three people are murdered and nine die in car crashes every day in the UK. Why not spare some airtime for some of the other victims in society rather than just banging on and on about this one girl who may or may not still be alive?

Andail · Sat 12/05/2007 11:57:11

Quote from: Zooty on Thu 10/05/2007 12:35:21
If my parents did that, they'd have taken a baby monitor with them.

That's good, but soon enough they should let you spend at least some time on your own!

Sam. · Sat 12/05/2007 12:13:08

Never!

Quintaros · Sat 12/05/2007 14:54:01

Quote from: Meowster on Thu 10/05/2007 11:13:32
What angers me too, is that people feel justified in kidnapping and abusing children... and then murdering them. The very least they could do is let the child go. Why does it always end with murder?

I don' t know that child abducters feel any sense of entitlement to commit their crimes. They have a compulsion. The reason the children don't get released afterwards is because the abducters know that their chances of being apprehended are much greater with a living victim than a silent body buried out in the woods somewhere. Murder is a neccessity once the initial abduction and molestation has been committed.

At what age is it appropriate to leave children unattended? There is always a risk that something bad can happen in your absence regardless of the child's age.

Mr Flibble · Sat 12/05/2007 17:16:36

I don't recall my parents leaving me on my own until I was... 10 maybe? Certainly until I was old enough to take care of myself if the need arose.

I'm pleasantly surprised that people here are critcising the parents here. I thought I was the only one thinking along those lines.

What disturbs me a little is that the abductor took her in an allegedly half-hour window. Which means he had been watching her for a while. Which means he had probably noticed the parents leaving her alone like they did.

Quintaros · Sun 13/05/2007 00:52:22

Quote from: Mr Flibble on Sat 12/05/2007 17:16:36
I don't recall my parents leaving me on my own until I was... 10 maybe? Certainly until I was old enough to take care of myself if the need arose.

For most situations, yes, a 10 year should be able to take care of himself for a few hours. But if somebody broke into your home with the intent to you harm, at 10 years old you're not capable of defending yourself.

Mr Flibble · Sun 13/05/2007 00:59:51

Yeah but at 10 you're capable of running away, kicking and screaming, calling for help, all those things.

It could indeed have been much later than 10, which was just a ballpark figure. Having said that, I'm 16 now. Would I be able to defend myself if someone broke into my house with the intent to do me harm?

Quintaros · Sun 13/05/2007 01:15:06

Quote from: Mr Flibble on Sun 13/05/2007 00:59:51
Yeah but at 10 you're capable of running away, kicking and screaming, calling for help, all those things.

You're capable of doing all those things at 3 1/2 as well. My guess would be that the child went under her own momentum though, tricked by the abductor into believing that the parents had sent him or some other such lie. This happens to 10 year olds as well.

Quote from: Mr Flibble on Sun 13/05/2007 00:59:51
I'm 16 now. Would I be able to defend myself if someone broke into my house with the intent to do me harm?

Maybe...maybe not. You probably wouldn't be tricked the way a younger child might be but there's still a good chance you wouldn't be able to defend yourself.

I think when a parent decides a child is old enough to be left alone it's not based on how well they expect the child to adapt to extreme cirumstances but how responsible a child will be under foreseeable circumstances. These parents knew that under normal circumstances their children would sleep soundly through the night and it never occured to them that an outside force may invade their lives. You can't blame the victims for being victimized.

Mr Flibble · Sun 13/05/2007 02:17:29

Quote from: Quintaros on Sun 13/05/2007 01:15:06You can't blame the victims for being victimized.

Surely the victim is Madeleine?

I don't think I'd leave my 3 year old daughter unattended in a hotel room whilst I went off to have dinner in a restaurant. If I did so, and she was abducted, I'd blame myself entirely. Then of course you have the fact that the child could wake up and be upset, terrified to be left alone.

I don't personally think a three year old could run very fast, or hide very well... but then neither could a 10 year old, really.

The half hour gap seems conspicuous here. Madeleine was taken at some point in the 30 minute interval between her parents checking on her. That's just too precise for my tastes. It would suggest that whoever took her had watched and planned it quite thoroughly.

Or a good cover for a murder/accidental death.... but that's too outlandish to happen. Surely.

Quintaros · Sun 13/05/2007 03:06:28

Quote from: Mr Flibble on Sun 13/05/2007 02:17:29
Surely the victim is Madeleine?

The entire family are victims under circumstances like this.

Quote from: Mr Flibble on Sun 13/05/2007 02:17:29
I don't think I'd leave my 3 year old daughter unattended in a hotel room whilst I went off to have dinner in a restaurant. If I did so, and she was abducted, I'd blame myself entirely.

I might hold the abductor a teensie bit responsible.

I'm sure they will blame themselves or each other. If they'd stayed in, the event wouldn't have occurred. If they'd done any number of things differently perhaps it never would have occurred. But that can be said about a lot of bad things that happen in life.

Quote from: Mr Flibble on Sun 13/05/2007 02:17:29
The half hour gap seems conspicuous here. Madeleine was taken at some point in the 30 minute interval between her parents checking on her. That's just too precise for my tastes. It would suggest that whoever took her had watched and planned it quite thoroughly.

I would not be at all surprised if the investigation revealed that the abductor had some sort of connection to the hotel that allowed him to watch for opportunities such as this.