Samantha Orobator

[Meowster]

Hey all,

If you could spare a moment, perhaps you could check out the story of Samantha Orobator: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8031587.stm

She is currently being held in Phonthong prison in Laos, where she has been since last August after being arrested for having heroin in her luggage.

Phonthong prison is reknowned for violence and human rights violations that occur within its walls, and british prisoners have died there before. After a few months of being detained there, Samantha "fell pregnant", despite that it is a women-only prison.

Her trial has been brought forward by a year to start tomorrow, which the legal charity Reprieve believe is an attempt to get her trial over and done with before she can speak to a lawyer and the story gains the wider attention of the press. If convicted, she faces a firing squad.

Whether or not she was intentionally smuggling the drugs, the fact is that she's just 20 years old - three years younger than me, not more than a young girl from a deprived background. Maybe someone put the drugs in her luggage, maybe someone convinced her it was easy and a quick way of earning a bit of cash without letting her know the dangers she was getting herself into. Maybe she knew exactly what she was doing. But nobody deserves what she is going through; she deserves a second chance. We all make mistakes, and when you're a young girl from a deprived background and a not-so-great area of London, those traps can be a lot easier to fall into.

Because this is the AGS forum, I'm sure there'll be some level of discussion and debate and people flaming and arguing. But I'm asking those of you who want to help to, to read on. I contacted Reprieve and asked how we can help to make a difference. If you want to help, please do the following:

1. Join this facebook group and invite everyone on your list to join and take action (this is the kind of thing FB groups were invented for, not "I secretly want to punch slow walking people in the back of the head!): http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=74873457534 . This will help spread awareness. Remember that every little helps right now.

2. Email Samantha's local MP and Gordon Brown, detailing your concerns for Samantha and demanding action to be taken ASAP, before it is too late. Details below:

Harriet Harman: harmanh@parliament.uk / Tel: 0207 219 4218
Gordon Brown: https://email.number10.gov.uk/Contact.aspx

[BOYD1981]

How many lives would have been ruined if she hadn't been caught trying to smuggle heroin, hmm?
Sounds like another case of the western world having a problem with criminals actually being punished for their crimes, and she'd have to be pretty stupid to not know the risks of SMUGGLING an ILLEGAL drug.
Also where does it say she comes from a deprived background (not that that's any kind of justification for what she attempted to do)? Or are you basing that on the fact she's originally from Nigeria?

[InCreator]

Serves er' right!

[Eggie]

I'll definitely join. No way does someone deserve to get raped or die for drug smuggling.

I doubt a facebook group can do much good, though.

[Meowster]

Good show, Eggie! The facebook group will help spread the word so to speak, but the real help will come from people emailing her local MP to pressure people into taking action quickly. Even if only ten people do it, it's better than nothing. So thanks!

[Stupot]

Heroin is EVIL. Those who deal and smuggle the stuff aren't exactly saints either.  I'm not saying she deserves to be raped or face the firing squad, but on the other hand, she does deserve to be punished to the fullest extent of the law.  If Laotian law happens to be harsher than ours then she should have thought about that before trying to smuggle herion.

I'm sure she's just a naive young lady who got herself into a spot of bother and happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time... yeh, and so are all the other prisoners in Phonthong.  Why should she get preferential treatment just for being British?

Also there are probably tens of thousands of people in foreign prisons, if not more. Just because this lass is young and pretty, does that make her more qualified for her own Facebook awareness campaign?  I'm sure there are some ugly people in worse situations than her that the BBC would never bother to cover... She is to drug smugglers as Maddy McMann is to missing children.

[Mr Flibble]

Things like this always make me wonder about the countless people in similarly desperate situations who failed to get the attention of the media, and for whom there will be no reprieve or crowd of people offering support from the sidelines. I'm not saying the people who manage to get attention don't deserve help, but it makes me think about everything that could be done, and which won't be done, because there was no friendly "human face" to make people interested.

[Layabout]

Whilst I don't agree with the penalty of death for any reason, I have a hard time believing anyone could be so stupid to do this without knowing. Anyone travelling to other countries should know the appropriate laws and penalties for their destination country.

Drug smuggling is a serious crime. It is why they have posters in the airport. It is why they question you at check-in asking if someone has put anything in your bag or asked you to.

My bags have been searched by customs a few times. I know of others who have been searched. It really is a lucky dip, and I would never chance anything out of the ordinary being in my luggage. This is not out of fear, I would just never be so stupid. I got angry when a fellow adventurer 'smuggled' weed over the ferry to France in my car, just because if he were caught, I was driving the vehicle transporting drugs. Granted it was only a very small amount, but it could still get us into the shit.

What it really boils down to is if you are going to go outside your own country. USE YOUR BRAIN. Read up on the subject. Read a guidebook to the appropriate countries, they all have those kind of warnings.

I seriously doubt there is much the British Government can do. Their laws are in place as a deterrent to stop the flow of drugs to their country, or at least keep them to a minimum. And yes, I'm sure there are many who face a similar fate.

She will probably get life imprisonment. It is all up to the judge. Death is the highest possible penalty the judge can hand out, not the only one.

[magintz]

Yea I have to agree with the whole heroin is evil thing. She knew the risks, hasn't she ever seen Midnight Express? That's put me off even taking a risk of someone spiking my bag with drugs.

[RickJ]

I have sympathy for the girl and worry about her getting a fair trial by US/British/European standards.   Most places in the world have ass backward legal systems that are setup to preserve the rights of the state rather than the rights of the individual.    People who have money or who are politically connected are able to buy themselves out of most things; if you're not one of them your screwed. 

The article leaves many things unanswered.  For example why would anyone want to go to Laos on holiday?  Was the stuff found on her person or in luggage?  Was she coming in to the country or going out?  Was there any possibility she was setup?  How much corruption is there in Laos? 

From the article I am suspicious about the amount.  If she is accused of making a buy in Laos and caught on her way out then the supplier surely would have known about the difference in penalty between 1KG and 1.6KG and would likely be reluctant to deal in quantities over the 1KG limit. 

This may come as a shock to some of you younger folks but there isn't a government on the face of the earth, now or at any time in the past, that isn't rife with graft and corruption.  The only difference from one country to another is the degree, some have more than others.  Some of you may think that the government is a benevolent caretaker and that it will take care of you and your lifelong needs.  Sooner or later you will come to realize that this true only as long as you can vote/support those who control the reigns of power.  Case in point is the recent news about Great Brittan with holding treatment from breast cancer patients who have adanced beyond a certain point.       

Having said all of that, if the girl is actually guilty of the crime and there is absolutely no doubt, and she is given expert legal representation and other resources necessary to defend herself then I have no problem with the death penalty.   

[edit]
Here is the letter I jut sent to Ms Hartman and Mr. Brown

Ms. Harriet Harman

Dear Ms. Harman,

I am a US citizen and have been a member of the AGS online community for 10 years.  We are a group of folks who collaborate to make computer games which we, for the most part,  distribute over the internet free of charge.  AGS is a wonderful game creating development system created by a young man living in London.   
   
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php

I am writing to you you on behalf of one of your constituents, Samantha Orobator, and her legal problems in Laos.  I would like to ask you to intervene on Samatha's behalf.   I am concerned that she will not get a fair trial by US/British standards.   I am an electrical engineer who has lived and worked in many different countries around the world and also have family living in South America and Taiwan. 

I am personally aware of how backward and corrupt legal systems in some parts of the wsorld can be.   In most places the legal system is designed to protect the rights of the state and those who control the reigns of power rather than the rights of the individual citizens.  People who have money or political influence are able to buy themselves out of most things; others are just denied justice.   This happens in every country on the face of the earth (including ours) but some places are much much worse than others.   

Herion is truly evil and if Samatha is dealing this stuff then she should be punished, however, I would prefer that she be prosecuted under UK justice system.   Perhaps she could be extradited to the UK and prsecuted there?

I am certain that if your country makes the diplomatic effort that Samatha can eventually be brought home to face whatever punishement she deserves if any.   I  urge you to take any and all necessary action to accomplish this goal.   

Best Regards

[Dualnames]

Here goes the forum troll.

[Andail]

Dualnames, can you ever not post?

I agree with the general sentiment here, which is that she deserves a very severe punishment for what she's done, but not death penalty, which I think nobody deserves.

I think that at 20 you should be responsible for your actions. In most countries the age of discretion is several years below that. It doesn't really help that she's from a "deprived" background; to claim so is almost a bit condescending towards young working class people.

[Hudders]

1. Join this facebook group and invite everyone on your list to join and take action (this is the kind of thing FB groups were invented for, not "I secretly want to punch slow walking people in the back of the head!): http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=74873457534 . This will help spread awareness. Remember that every little helps right now.

This will not help.

2. Email Samantha's local MP and Gordon Brown, detailing your concerns for Samantha and demanding action to be taken ASAP, before it is too late.

This will not help. I'm sure they both already know about it what with it being plastered all over the news and all.

As Stupot said above, why should she get special treatment over everybody else held in Phonthong?

Also: local law forbids the execution of pregnant prisoners, so she won't face the firing squad if convicted.

[Buckethead]

I also don't really understand how a facebook group could help her. Maybe if she was the host of a show that is about to get cancelled. Really I think facebook is only good for getting yourself fired and collecting human stamps.

[Ubel]

2. Email Samantha's local MP and Gordon Brown, detailing your concerns for Samantha and demanding action to be taken ASAP, before it is too late.

This will not help. I'm sure they both already know about it what with it being plastered all over the news and all.

That's just not the point. The point is that the more pressure you apply to people considering problems like this the more time and resources they will use to solve them. Theoretically. Either that or they get a nervous breakdown and commit suicide.

[Hudders]

That's just not the point. The point is that the more pressure you apply to people considering problems like this the more time and resources they will use to solve them. Theoretically. Either that or they get a nervous breakdown and commit suicide.

It's no wonder politicians never get anything done with people railroading them into expending all their time and resources on fringe causes like this.

[RickJ]

I think that at 20 you should be responsible for your actions.

I think the point is that it is not certain what "her actions" actually are.  The concern is that she will not have the means or opportunity to defend herself.   From reading the article, I suspect that the Laos officials have already convicted her and the trial is only for show (not for dough).   

Sending letters to politicians have more affect than one may think.  A massive amount of correspondence can not only persuade a politician to take action but is also valuable amunition that can be used to persuade others.   

[Hudders]

You're not going to spur them into doing anything they aren't already doing. I'm not sure British politicians hold much sway in Laos anyway. Perhaps you'd be better off writing to Laotian politicians.

[RickJ]

They can turn on diplomatic pressure and promise a future favor (i.e. we'll owe you one Laos).   They can possibly work a deal where if convicted in Laos she would be extradited to UK to face other hcarges there.  Laos is satisfied, UK citizen is repatriated, and justice served.  Similar things have been done before in other circumstances.   

[Hudders]

The foreign office is meeting with a delegation from Laos on Thursday to discuss a possible exchange of prisoners. As I said: they are doing what they can and sending them letters isn't going to cause them to do anything more.