RIP/Happy Birthday James Bulger

Guybrush Nosehair · Fri 11/02/2011 21:05:51

Today, March 16, marks what would have been James Bulger's 21st birthday if he were alive today. I would sincerely like to request to everyone that you keep his memory and his family in your minds today. I am reviving this thread after one month, and am hoping for more people to post. I was very disappointed last month when I only received a few replies. For those of you who don't know who James Bulger was, I strongly suggest you click the links below. His was the most heartbreaking story I have ever heard.

[original post]

February 12th marked the 18th anniversary of James Bulger's murder. I'd like everyone to keep his memory in your mind. I would be interested in engaging in any conversation about the case, so feel free to speak your minds.

For those of you who don't know who James Bulger was, here are great resources. I strongly encourage you to read these articals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/young/bulger/1.html (really in depth)

Please, read these at your own risk (especially the second). They can be very difficult to read for people with weak stomaches.

I think it would be appropriate for everyone to view this heartbreaking video of Baby James being led off in his tiny casket to his funeral.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTywACNO2X4&playnext=1&list=PLAED404B560D116F6

Thanks for your time.

Dualnames · Fri 11/02/2011 23:30:53

I know the story, and still to this very day it makes me go $:-\$ . Really I have no idea who is there to blame for what happened to that poor soul. It all makes me sad if anything.

voh · Sat 12/02/2011 01:40:18

I didn't know about this murder (I was 11 at the time... Scary to think that while I was playing Monkey Island, slightly younger kids were doing... This evil stuff :/), but this is stomach-churning...

Glad to see that one of those bastards is back in prison. I hope he receives a good number of beatings

Stupot · Sat 12/02/2011 05:40:10

I remember when this happened. Horrible stuff - then as now
What they did wasn't just murder, it was monstrous... unforgivable.
RIP Jamie

Eggie · Sat 12/02/2011 15:48:41

I remember researching this in my first year of media studies (the movie Childs Play 3 was blamed for warping Veneble's mind for a little while because his father who he wasn't even living with had rented it at some point in time). I guess here's my take on it now...

These murders were just kids with a piss-poor understanding of the world, not Damien from The Omen. What happened was horrible but calling them monsters and hoping they get beaten up in prison's hardly going to get us anywhere closer to understanding it all.

Honestly I'm far more affected by the front page photos of one of the(now grown up) now grown up killers with his girlfriend with lurid headlines along the lines of 'How DARE he find happiness in his tortured, wretched life when Jamie Bulger is DEAD!". Nice work, tabloids you've

A) Exposed a man who's identity's been changed for his protection
B) Incited hatred towards a man for something he did AS A CHILD
C) Dragged an innocent woman into the whole sorry mess while you were at it

Honestly, this makes me feel more sick than the murders themselves. Kids torment each other all the time, stupid fucked up things happen as a result of it all the time, it's tragic but it's humanity. But whatever FULLY AWARE ADULT decided to publish that article, that's the true scum of society right there.

Here's an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about I found with some quick googling: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255608/Yet-250-000-new-identity-Jamie-Bulger-murderer.html
It's like they want to start a bloodhunt for some new material. Cunts.

Calin Leafshade · Sat 12/02/2011 15:56:35

I do agree actually. The british tabloids can be feral little shits.

I do feel a little ill when law abiding citizens call for criminals to be lynched or castrated or whatever. Especially after they have served their time.
Revenge is a horrible act that should be eliminated from the world.

bicilotti · Sat 12/02/2011 18:27:56

Quote from: EHCB on Sat 12/02/2011 15:48:41
Honestly I'm far more affected by the front page photos of one of the(now grown up) now grown up killers with his girlfriend with lurid headlines along the lines of 'How DARE he find happiness in his tortured, wretched life when Jamie Bulger is DEAD!". Nice work, tabloids [...]

Here's an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about I found with some quick googling: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255608/Yet-250-000-new-identity-Jamie-Bulger-murderer.html
It's like they want to start a bloodhunt for some new material. Cunts.

~~Picture of the (grown up) two + girlfriend are missing, maybe you linked the wrong article?~~

edit: I'll rephrase - what I mean was, has that happened or it's just a possibility?

Stupot · Sat 12/02/2011 18:31:37

I agree the tabloid press is the root of all evil, that's why I don't read them.

But I don't think its fair to criticize those people who call these criminals monsters and what-not. It's a perfectly human reaction to a very inhuman crime.

What these boys did was something so unthinkably disgusting in almost every way imaginable. This wasn't just 'kids tormenting each other', and yeah they had a piss-poor understanding of the world, but for some people, myself included, that's not an excuse. They knew exactly what they were doing, and crucially, they knew that it was wrong.

I think it's perfectly normal for we law-abiding citizens to react in disgust at the memory of such crimes... Especially when they find out that Venables barely set foot out of prison before starting on the child porn ... that was the final insult that changed the minds of many people who had previously been willing to blame society, or Chuckie.

Calin Leafshade · Sat 12/02/2011 21:05:29

Thats fine except some people do actually want these guys *killed violently*.

That's not normal.

Guybrush Nosehair · Sun 13/02/2011 03:10:19

I was born one year after the murder occurred. I also happen to be American. Naturally, I never had any reason to hear of the murder. The truth is that I stumbled across the story completely by mistake in December. While browsing some IMDB forums, I kept seeing James's name pop up. I decided to Google it, and was horrified at what I read. I had to stop midway through because I thought that I'd vomit. I forced myself to continue, and eventually found the trutv link. I then forced myself to read the whole thing. I was in a state of depression for two weeks. I couldn't go five minutes without thinking about Baby James. Even now, I still frequently thought about James.

Quote from: EHCB on Sat 12/02/2011 15:48:41
I remember researching this in my first year of media studies (the movie Childs Play 3 was blamed for warping Veneble's mind for a little while because his father who he wasn't even living with had rented it at some point in time). I guess here's my take on it now...

These murders were just kids with a piss-poor understanding of the world, not Damien from The Omen. What happened was horrible but calling them monsters and hoping they get beaten up in prison's hardly going to get us anywhere closer to understanding it all.

Honestly I'm far more affected by the front page photos of one of the(now grown up) now grown up killers with his girlfriend with lurid headlines along the lines of 'How DARE he find happiness in his tortured, wretched life when Jamie Bulger is DEAD!". Nice work, tabloids you've

A) Exposed a man who's identity's been changed for his protection
B) Incited hatred towards a man for something he did AS A CHILD
C) Dragged an innocent woman into the whole sorry mess while you were at it

Honestly, this makes me feel more sick than the murders themselves. Kids torment each other all the time, stupid fucked up things happen as a result of it all the time, it's tragic but it's humanity. But whatever FULLY AWARE ADULT decided to publish that article, that's the true scum of society right there.

Here's an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about I found with some quick googling: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255608/Yet-250-000-new-identity-Jamie-Bulger-murderer.html
It's like they want to start a bloodhunt for some new material. Cunts.

It's interesting that you mentioned Child's Play. From what I remember reading, the judge ruled that there was no link between the movie and the murder.

Are you sure about that part about one of the killer's pictures appearing in the paper? As far as I'm aware from any research I've done, no one knows who either of them are. Also, wouldn't the newspapers be breaching legal contracts by exposing his identity. Thirdly, I think I would have seen the picture by now. Do you have a source where I can see the picture?

Also, I've read from many sources that Venables revealed his own identity in prison. He must have had trouble living with the guilt. Obviously, he's suffered from a lot of mental trauma. Nevertheless, can you really blame any prisoners who may have discovered his identity?

Quote from: Stupot on Sat 12/02/2011 18:31:37
I agree the tabloid press is the root of all evil, that's why I don't read them.

But I don't think its fair to criticize those people who call these criminals monsters and what-not. It's a perfectly human reaction to a very inhuman crime.

What these boys did was something so unthinkably disgusting in almost every way imaginable. This wasn't just 'kids tormenting each other', and yeah they had a piss-poor understanding of the world, but for some people, myself included, that's not an excuse. They knew exactly what they were doing, and crucially, they knew that it was wrong.

I think it's perfectly normal for we law-abiding citizens to react in disgust at the memory of such crimes... Especially when they find out that Venables barely set foot out of prison before starting on the child porn ... that was the final insult that changed the minds of many people who had previously been willing to blame society, or Chuckie.

I agree.

I don't know that the boys should be killed, as many people have suggested. However, they're sentence was waaaay too short. Furthermore, neither of them spent any time in a "jail." They were placed in correctional centers, where they were taught how to be placed back into society. They were even escorted on a weekly basis to public places. Venables got his own TV and Nintendo. Apparently, he also had access to a computer. He even convinced the guards to let him stay up half an hour past the curfew on a nightly basis. I believe that when they left their individual centers, they should have been thrown into a real jail for a number of years.

I've watched several documentaries on YouTube about both the murder case. I remember seeing a great one narrated by the head investigator of the case. It had a good amount audio from the police interviews. These are the only copies I've found of any interviews. Does anyone know if there is any more audio available to the public? If possible, I'd really like to hear the recordings or read the transcripts.

I would be interested in talking about anything related to the murder case. Just speak your minds.

Dualnames · Sun 13/02/2011 06:06:32

It's pretty obvious that what they did was beyond belief. And I can't ask their families to forgive them, as it's no easy task. But forgiveness is never an easy task, is it? Thing is I'm not sure what I'd do to those kids if I had any power on them. I mean, they were just kids, but on the other hand what they did wasn't really something you'd expect kids to do.

Perhaps we're all affected by the tabloids in some way, regardless.

Who ever blamed the parents is my question! The parents of those two kids. Who ever blamed the mall security for not doing their job. As far as I recall those two kids stole like a ton of stuff before they decided to steal James Bulger.

We've all stolen or attempted to steal something during our childhood. Like a candy from our grandma or anything. But imagine if we never get caught. If the limits weren't there. That's what happened.

If there's someone to blame here, it's their parents. If my kid ever committed murder, as a normal parent, I'd knew I fucked up somewhere as a father.

Guybrush Nosehair · Sun 13/02/2011 17:22:53

Quote from: Dualnames on Sun 13/02/2011 06:06:32
If there's someone to blame here, it's their parents.

Robert Thompson's father was jailed at one point. When he got out, he ran out on the family. At that point, Robert's mother became an alcoholic. From that point on, all of the Thompson boys had to fend for themselves. However, rather than help each other out, the older would actually bully the younger. The Thompsons were all known in the police force for having criminal records.

John Venables was the middle sibling of three. Both of his siblings had learning disabilities. He was always craving the attention that they got. Also, his father had split from his mother and come back several times, creating a lot of insecurity.

Their parents were obviously somewhat responsible, but we still must put blame on the boys. It was established in court that they knew right from wrong, and that what they did was wrong. What does bother me a little is the fact that it appears as if Robert Thompson was the ringleader. He was known to be very charismatic, and therefor seemed to drag Venables into the whole ordeal. Throughout the police interviews and court sessions, Venables was very distraught and remorseful. He often fantasized about bringing Baby James back to life. After he confessed to the murder, he requested that somewhat let James's mother know he was sorry. Robert, on the other hand, never really seemed to show remorse for what he had done.

Matti · Sun 13/02/2011 18:03:08

"Right" and "wrong" are just some words without any meaning. If someone is cruel to another person, (s)he must have some serious problems and is definitely very unhappy. Or (s)he thinks that for some brainless reason (s)he does the right thing (like soldiers). No happy person will ever kill or hurt anybody.

It doesn't make the incident less tragic or something, but it's stupid to pick on the kids and call them monsters. "It's a perfectly human reaction to a very inhuman crime." is a stupid statement too. The crime is, of course, as human as the reaction to it. There's no good or evil, there's just things that happen and they have their reasons. I agree it's hard to believe that thoise kids did such a thing, but it happened and it has a reason. Calling for vengeance doesn't make anything better as even more lives will be destroyed that way (if not already, as the two won't be too happy for their whol life I could imagine).

Having said that, I regret having read the story as it almost made me vomit myself. These are the things you can't forget (like the murder of Sharon Tate and such).

Guybrush Nosehair · Wed 16/03/2011 02:55:36

Tomorrow, March 16, marks what would have been James Bulger's 21st birthday if he were alive today. I would sincerely like to request to everyone that you keep his memory and his family in your minds tomorrow. I am reviving this thread after one month, and am hoping for more people to post. I was very disappointed last month when I only received a few replies. For those of you who don't know who James Bulger was, I strongly suggest you click the links in the original post. His was the most heartbreaking story I have ever heard.

Snake · Wed 16/03/2011 15:25:44

Don't be disappointed. Like me, maybe some people just hadn't noticed it yet or did but didn't click on it due to not knowing who James was.

It's absolutely horrifying. This is the first time I've heard of it. It is quite heart wrenching.

What struck me emotionally, more than the act itself, was when I pictured James' little face when they started to attack him... the confusion... being scared... wanting his mother. The innocents of trusting those two boys to take him somewhere and then they turn on him...

I have a 3 year old girl. I can't imagine something so terrifying happening to her :'(

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Wed 16/03/2011 16:14:15

These kids sound straight out of Damien: The Omen. It seems pretty clear to me that someone so thoroughly amoral at such a young age will never properly adapt to a moral society, so releasing either of them, to me at least, was a dubious decision. Better to have executed them both as children through lethal injection than to allow them to elevate their behaviors into adulthood where they could quite possibly do much more harm to many more children. Sure it sounds callous to execute children, but their crime was far more callous and brutal than a lethal injection, and if Venable's interest in children is real then we can derive that the years of imprisonment did not improve his nature but rather made him clever enough to hide it. Thompson likely has the same proclivities but is better at repressing it based on their testimonies about the molestation aspects of the murder case.

I don't pretend to understand what events shaped these two boys into vicious killers but I do know that in most cases prison does not reform people (there's a tendency towards the opposite with violent criminals), and when you've got two 10 year olds capable of this level of horror can you seriously expect them to grow up to be upstanding adults fit for society, half their lives shaped behind bars?

Guybrush Nosehair · Fri 18/03/2011 01:33:48

James being lead to his death

Kweepa · Fri 18/03/2011 04:09:39

People die every day in horrific ways.
I'm not sure why you've decided to fixate on one death from nearly twenty years ago, tragic though it may be.
Spare a thought for the thousands in Japan?

Matti · Fri 18/03/2011 14:26:36

Quote from: Kweepa on Fri 18/03/2011 04:09:39
Spare a thought for the thousands in Japan?

Yeah, and in Lybia...

mkennedy · Fri 18/03/2011 15:25:53

While I support the death penalty for the most heinous crimes I do think that the government should wait until the criminals turn 18 before executing them. Though these killers definitely should not have been released back into society. Have these murderers done anything to redeem themselves?

RIP/Happy Birthday James Bulger

bicilotti