AGS - Which way are you heading

[Eggie]

Most games here are neither LEC, nor Sierra, but somewhere on the line between the two.

Y'know, if you think about it. There's sort of an...AGS style.
Lucasarts dialog, Sierra interface, Not many games have death or walking deads.

I've always considered AGS purely neutral juast because it's so versatile. No creator is commited to following any particular style of game making.

Plus, I really dislike walking deads and experience makes me want to burn things. Really, that's the only reason I don't play Sierra games.

[Gonzo]

I always preferred LucasArts, I think their 'Game Design Philosophy' you read in all their manuals was spot-on about 'buying games to be entertained, not to be punished every time you make a mistake'. But they probably missed the point that all the people who bought Sierra games probably liked the hard aspect of it. I can appreciate that the big undertaking that Sierra games often were, having to have oodles of saves and being careful around cliffs etc., made them an attractive challenge to many gamers.

Personally, I'm more a casual hobbyist when it comes to games, and LucasArts do give more immediate gratification, and are easier to get through. It always seemed to me you got rewarded more often with new areas to explore, new characters to meet, new jokes, more often. With Sierra games I find that sometimes there's too much of the game open to you to begin with, the goal (or what you should do first) isn't clear enough, and there aren't enough people to interact with.

I have reassessed this view a bit, as I have discovered the Quest For Glory series this year, which is fantastic. QFG2: Trial By Fire must be one of my favourites now. But just as a general rule, I think LucasArts made 'em best.

As for the LucasArts copying Sierra idea, yeah I'm sure graphic adventures were picked up by LucasArts after Sierra, but it remains that they really did their own thing with them (and helped popularise them). This thread wouldn't be here if they'd ONLY copied Sierra, they're very distinct styles.

[TheHotTrout]

Personally as far as UI goes I prefer the Broken Sword style, nice and simple, keep the concentration on the puzzles and story (and lurverly graphics ) In the game design style I will always hark back to that MI theme tune and just think of the bliss (I keep my old SB Pro around just in case I wanna hear all those old DOS tunes, but thats a different thread), I guess the games you play when you're young are magnified in their perceived brilliance I loved the humour then and I still try to fit "You fight like cow" into the odd conversation every now and then (how sad  ) That said QFG is the best mixed genre series EVER

[juncmodule]

I grew up a Sierra man. I played King's Quest and Space Quest when they first came out. I remember Space Quest very well, I walked Roger out of his closet and down the hall about two months before Sierra released the game. My dad used to go to this Atari ST club that basically traded pirated software back and forth. He bought all of the Sierra games though. I remember playing Loom once, long ago. Then I played a Demo of Monkey Island 1 once. I hated it. I don't know why. I just hated it.

Well, over a decade has passed and I find that I just can't play Sierra games anymore. I now like LucasArts games. I just completed Monkey Island 1 a few weeks ago. I loved it. I thought it was the greatest game I've ever played. Sierra games take a lot of time, time that I just don't seem to have anymore. Even with a walkthrough. LucasArts games are just easier for me now. It is a funny twist since everyone is saying that LucasArts games are for teenagers. Maybe I got dumb or lazy as I got older.

So far I have made two games with AGS. The first was pretty Sierra point & click style with all messages in pop up boxes. My second was Sierra point & click with LucasArts dialog (I agree that this seems to be the AGS-style). My current game uses a modified DOTT(switching characters)/FOA(design) GUI(Thanks Proskrito!). I believe I now prefer LucasArts GUI's, but I'm sure that will change when I finish this game and start another...

later,
-junc

[edmundito]

As a lec fan, my game will probably have a lot of LEC style to it. However, from playing AGS games  I've gotten to like some of the sierra features like text windows and the interface.

So the gui style is a combination of the two. the actual interface is based on Monkey Island 2's but simplified to a sierra style, but you can still scroll through actions using the mouse wheel.

A while ago I read a thread where some sierra fans said that they didn't like the way LEC games made you move all the way to the object to look at it or two say that you can't use it (I think it was  PUMAMAN/CJ actually who said that). Anway, I've worked hard to code so that the player walks to the hotspot only if it's necessary. the character only turns to look at the hostpot at look at, and a  text window pops up, but it describes eveything in 3rd person like some kind of narrator. When you try to interact, tho, the character does say "I can't do that" or whatever. the little guy's got a mind of its own.

As for conversations, it's very LEC based. After all, it's a very lec trademark to have dialog and dialog  in adventures.

So I strongly believe that a blend of the two is the way to go... there's so much style you can do these days with mix and matching.

As for dying, you can't die in my games, but I wouldn't mind experimenting with it so that it works in a good sort of way. (maybe like halo where when you die you load to the last checkpoint, but that would mean linearlity, so I'm not sure )

Unless you wanna go to pure nostalgia, then I think it would be great to have some classic sierra styled games like KQ1 /2 VGA and so on...

[Trapezoid]

That's almost my sentiment exactly, netmonkey. Bits of both Sierra and LucasArts, mix very well.

[magintz]

It seems to me that the commercial scene of adventure games is now very narrow, Monkey Island 4, Sam and Max, 2 Broken Sword 3, Full Throttle 2 seem to be going the way of action/beat-em-ups.

Were in the minority, and its really up to us to try to revive it, thats why AGS works so well for us, as the fans are creating the games, so we take the bits we like from what we've seen and make a pleasant mix.

[remixor]

I don't particularly care to lump myself into a category.  However, there's no real way to put it other than saying that even if I had no idea what company published what games, I would end up preferring a lot more LucasArts games than I would Sierra games, even considering how many more Sierra made.  As far as the dying thing goes, I think there's nothing wrong with players being punished for doing something obviously lethal and stupid, but simply clicking on a cliff?  Give me a break.  It would be a different story if this was the case:
Player clicks on cliff, character walks over to cliff
Player clicks on cliff again, character teeters precariously on the edge
Player clicks on cliff again, character begins to lose footing
Player clicks on cliff again, character falls to his bloody doom and the game displays an error message saying "YOU ARE A BIG IDIOT.  WHY ARE YOU USING A COMPUTER?"
That's obviously exaggerated, but at least it encourages the explorative nature of adventure games by promoting rather than absurdly punishing investigation.

I had more to say about the difference between the two companies' games, but I think I've probably said enough for now.

[Eggie]

That's a great idea. Give 'em fair warning.

[taryuu]

text parsers suck

>use gun
I don't konw what you mean by "use"
>aim gun
i don't know what you mean by "aim"
>shoot gun
i don't know what you mean by "shoot"
>fire gun
i don't know what you mean by "fire"
>quit
are you sure you wan't to quit?
>yes
i don't know what you mean by "yes"

and as for sierra vs lucas.  i liked lucas because you didn't have to worry about saving as much as you did in sierra, there's nothing more frustrating than getting far in a sierra game, and then dying in some "humourous" way and then having to start again 50minutes before

[DragonRose]

That bit about saving is very interesting, Taryuu.  The reason why I like Sierra games is BECAUSE there's so many opportunities to go wrong.  It really forces the player to think.  

As an example, the I got really involved in The Colonel's Bequest because  there was a real sense of danger about the game.  In the Monkey Island games (the only LEC games I've played) I never really worried about what was going to happen next.  There was never anything to worry about, because Guybrush can't die.

Guybrush would always be safe, but Laura could die, and frequently did.  I grew attatched to each Laura- this one might have found the cigar butt in the secret passage, that one may have had an important conversation with the lawyer.  My family had notebooks filled with maps and notes about where certain things could happen.

Guybrush was going to be a pirate... and I couldn't really care less.  It seemed like an inevitability.  Laura might- or might not- solve the mystery and make it through the night.  We had to get to the end of the game (more than once) to find out whether she got it right or not.  

Back on topic, I'd have to say my games tend to be more Sierra-influenced.  I've only played three LEC games (one of which I haven't completed) as compared to the 25+ Sierra games I've played to the end, so I don't have enough experience with LEC to be really influenced by them.

Out of curiosity, where could I find the LucasArts Game Design Philosiphy? I'm curious as to what it says.

Wow. That's a long post.

[Trapezoid]

Well, when you watch a movie you can almost always bet that the protagonist won't die. It's been established that LucasArts focuses on cinematicism (is that a word?) rather than being a traditional "game", whereas with Sierra I'm surprised they didn't have a high score table on all their games.

[Hollister Man]

Back to the whole "falling off cliffs" subject.  In my 'classic KQ' spinoff in progress, I am thinking of including an aspect noone ever used before.  What are the three treasures for if you can't use them?  You can pick up the magic shield for protection from all pointless deaths, the mirror for gentle hints at the puzzles, and the with the chest you can buy any item you missed once you find the right vendor (well, the easy to miss pencil at least.)  I have changed the way I wanted to do this several times, but I think it is coming together now.  

I like both styles, by the way.  I prefer dying when I do something stupoid, though.  "Gee, what happens if I fall off this...'You can't walk there'...Crap!"  

[Sluggo]

Player clicks on cliff, character walks over to cliff
Player clicks on cliff again, character teeters precariously on the edge
Player clicks on cliff again, character begins to lose footing
Player clicks on cliff again, character falls to his bloody doom and the game displays an error message saying "YOU ARE A BIG IDIOT.  WHY ARE YOU USING A COMPUTER?"

Hahaha! That reminds me of LSL2 when you're walking along this really narrow path and it's almost impossible to stay on the path, but when you fall off, the game dislpays something like "woah, that was a close one", and you don't die, but it keeps giving you points (for surviving I guess). It's like Al Lowe was making fun of the way characters die in an adventure game. Hilarious  

[TerranRich]

Back to the whole "falling off cliffs" subject.  In my 'classic KQ' spinoff in progress, I am thinking of including an aspect noone ever used before.  What are the three treasures for if you can't use them?  You can pick up the magic shield for protection from all pointless deaths, the mirror for gentle hints at the puzzles, and the with the chest you can buy any item you missed once you find the right vendor (well, the easy to miss pencil at least.)  I have changed the way I wanted to do this several times, but I think it is coming together now.  

I like both styles, by the way.  I prefer dying when I do something stupoid, though.  "Gee, what happens if I fall off this...'You can't walk there'...Crap!"  

Wow. That is a very original idea, Hollister Man! The three truly invaluable treasuires of Sierra-style adventure games. Why didn't *I* thin kof that! D';oh!

* terranRICH slaps himself repeatedly for being unoriginal