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My reasons about not wanting Bicilotti as a host are based on:

-Tradition.
-Justice (Or, to be expressed better... my perception of justice).

Anyone wanting to argue with me in that terms, I will be here. I can perfectly accept to be told "Hey Nacho! Tradition is not so important!" or "Nacho... It's not about justice, we are dutch and we don't really give a fuck about hosting this or not". Honestly... I can accept that. Actually, discussion should have been over if someone said that to me from the beginning... Over with a simply and gentle "Ok! No worries! " By me.

To all the people replying to me thinking that I used the following arguments:

-I don' t like Bicilotti.
-I don't respect Bicilotti.
-Bicilotti is too stupid to host mittens.

Well... Shut the fuck up, and FUCK UPstop it! I never said that. It's exausting to fight for something you believe, but if you are proved wrong al least it's a big reward to learn why the other was right... trying to make people realise that you haven't actually said that thing they think you said is not exausting or can bring a reward at the end... It' s just annoying and stupid.

And Becky, yes... It should be unfair to me to host a second mittens, that's why I changed my proposition to host it to Ryan as soon as I noticed it... So, include this issue in the list of things I am not going to reply.

Nacho, your bringing up of straw men is the biggest straw man of this entire thread.

Which one? Do you really know what a straw man is? Straw man is this:

"A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

Presenting and refuting a weakened form of an opponent's argument can be a part of a valid argument. For example, one can argue that the opposing position implies that at least one of two other statements - both being presumably easier to refute than the original position - must be true. If one refutes both of these weaker propositions, the refutation is valid and does not fit the above definition of a "straw man" argument."

When I say:
-It's unfair for the previous mittens attendants to give the host to someone who never attended.
And "people" reply:
-But he is able to do it! (Did I say he can't?) But he deserves respect! (Did I say he does not?)

People is replying to me to something I never said... And it' s probably the most annoying thing that can be made to me in the internet... I hate it.

Now please, Stupot, quote when I did the same in this thread, I would be gratefull to take note of it for not commiting the mistake in the future.

I can't see how having a first time Mitteneer as the "host" would be such a disaster.

Nobody said anything about a "disaster". Nobody said anything about the difficulties... Stop the straw men. What I said is that it's unfair. Period. But I am off, if the possible hosts do not want to deffend their rights it's not me who must do it, I am tired of fighting with windmills alone.

End of discussion. Mittens will be made in the place that Disco made campaign for and will be hosted by someone who never expressed the smallest interest in attending. Weeeeh!

Francesco's a good guy; he's been on the forums a good while now and I've talked to him a good deal.  I even talked to him about this very issue and I now rather regret to have encouraged him to offer his assistance considering some of the replies.

I make this statement in no way directed toward Bicilotti (as I've always enjoyed his "company" on the forums!) but I ...

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Straw men... They are cool, and they can make you win internet fights... When the audience is stupid, of course. Fortunatelly here it is not.

As I said before, I don't LOVE the idea, but I don't hate it, so the deffense I am going to do of my arguments is going to be quite mild... But Eric, Helm came to Sweden before hosting Mittens Greece.

And for you, well... The circumstances change a bit: M0ds did not host/attended to any mittens before he made the FIRST. Logic. What I mean is that, the lesser mittens we had, the less opportunities people had to attend... So, at the early years, not attending was not an argument against the possibility of having something to see about mittens. In addition, you never had a mittens in your continent till Mittens NY.

Now things have changed: Bicilotti had the possibility to express interest in mittens hosted in his continent for several times and he expressed no interest at all... And now he is the biggest mittens fan ever? Okay... Let' s say it was a coincidence...

And Prog... No one has expressed the idea of Bicilotti not being able to do it, or not being allowed to attend,  or suggested that "Francesco is not a good guy". So, stop strawmanning...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man#In_logic_and_rhetoric
What we say is that hosting mittens is a great honour, something sorta reserved for someone "important" for those who attended mittens before or someone special for the community in general, as happened with Eric... I am just saying that labelling "Host" to someone who never attended to mittens or made anything "special" in the community (Set where I include myself, and 98% of the AGSers) might be a bit unfair... Nowadays with the internet you can organise a mittens in italy from, let' s say... Australia!

Layabout has expressed his will to organise a mittens, and he has attended a few... I would be more "comfortable" if he is the lead organiser (I know he and Disco have been making a good research of villas already) and Bicilotti is the "main assistant" or something... As you see, it' s more a discussion of "semanthics" and "labels" than a real "I don't want him to host it!!1111one!!" complain.

I turn very picky sometimes when it' s about labels...  

Maybe, but I don't LOVE the idea of someone who never expressed the smaller will to come to mittens to start jumping and running across the room when heards "mittens... close to me? I wanna go! I wanna organise it!!! I love mittens!!!11!!! I LOVE IT!!!".

It's a bit unfair with those who expressed interest before no matter where the meeting is set...

But I don' t want to create polemics... I just say that I don't  LOVE it.. It' s not that I hate the idea or that I dislike it or something... It' s just that I don' t LOVE it...

Okay... If it's Italy, I offer myself as a organiser... I speak Spanish (quite similar) and a bit of Italian because of the cycling stuff, and, hey! I have a degree in tourism... It' s my work to organise trips! Remember I did more activities than any other host when you came to Spain, I only made the mistake of setting it in a campsite close to a british pub area... (Errors I won't commit again)

My idea is Toscana, in the countryside, of course, but also close to Roma, Pisa and Firenza...

If somebody wants to help me, I will be glad... if somebody does have something against me doing it (I repeat, if it' s done in Italy) reply now or shut up forever...

-Nacho.

Ah! Okay guys... IT'S NOT firefox, but now I remeber I am suing the new Explorer from a few days ago... Sorry to highjack this thread with this (And for being hypocrital and put it back to the top of the page with the reply...) Eeeeer... Thanks.

The magnified images are blurry for me, it never happened before... any kind of script line has been changed in the forums, so I have this problems in CL? ProgZmax? CJ?

Hello Cpage... I sorta like it, but I have a "basic concern"... he seems adorable. Are you sure that the personality of the character matches with its image? Art is not just about painting, but about thinking a bit before painting...

And another issue... Why using 105 colours when you could do the same, with same appeal, with 15?

I do not hate the frecuency domain, but I miss the times when the hottest thread in gen gen was something interesting...

Woooo!

Dear Ryan, we tried Australia once and it did not work...

I would be happy to give it a second chance in a couple of years, though...

As said, I don't want to be the advocate of any of the options but this "It was decided unpropperly" thing is just a fallacious argument... How was decided that it was going to be Spain? I was drunk and said to CJ, "I can host", he said "Yes, that sounds good for you, AGA?" and Aga said "mmmmph".

Result: Spain.

Same with Francisco, last year... He was playing the piano, Lore and me approached, and he said "I want to host mittens!" and we said "Mittens Miamiiii!"

Result: Miami.

I mean, if we want to go to Italy, let' s go to Italy... but don't use tricks like saying "Nobody was there when Netherlands was decided" because there was more people deciding that in that moment than ever.

Sorry for being a bit the Farlander of the forums in spite of the cheerful Nacho of mittens, but I don't like people taking decissions based in a false statement...

Dual, your point is not very valid...

OR... if valid, it's a huge CON for Netherlands...

Because MANY people in AGS knows Dutch, and many AGSers are not only close to there, but THERE.

But I don't want to go on being NL advocate... I like both If we go to Toscana I will bring my bike...

Who are you Pet Terry? And why have you stolen Petteri's avatar???

I *think* that if we decide Italy, Toscana should be a good option... Th problem is that nobody decided anything, yet. (well, in Mittens we decided Netherlands, but apparently there was not the required "quórum").

Becky, I think italian shouldn't be a problem for the Spanish talkers like Lore, Francisco, me... And Chris Jones! We could do the interpretation task... 

Just the opposite, Mr. Jet... We are so friends that we know we can have a fiendly chat without having hard feelings and stuff like that! ^_^

Kenneth, I think you might be being a bit tendentious (No offence)... You want Italy, and you sum up points for Italy, but I am quite sure that some of the "indifferent" you mentioned want NL, but are  too polite for not mentioning it openly.

Of course, if I do the same and put all the "indifferent" into the "NL list" then I would be the tendentious, wanting to sum up votes for NL and leading a "faction"... I don' t want to do that, but I think it should be a bit unfair to create a sympathy trend to Italy just because the people who wants to go to NL doesn't want to interfere....

Of course, I could be mistaken and interpreting the feelings of the "indifferent" badly...