your opinion on Roswell UFO crash

[radiowaves]

Maybe, maybe, maybe... All those theories are full of maybes. But extraordinary statement need of extraordinary evidences... Otherwise, I could say they there are still dragons (but maybe, who knows? they have learned to jump into another dimension, or maybe they are invissible or live under the earth, maybe, maybe, maybe...)

"Maybe" is what separates theory from a fact, so your paragraph was quite pointless

Actually, we just need to use the logic. The russians never claimed the footage to be false. Don' t you think that the russians would have examined every frame of the footage with a magnifier to find an evidence that the "archi-enemy" never reached the moon? And if you want to quote "Kubrick's film theory", please, take a look to the credits of the documentary at the end... there you can see Kubrick' s widow, Rumsfeld and some of the other "intervieweds" laughing like kids for the prank. It was all a joke for having some fun!(*)

Russians were drunk. Thats also the reason why they didn't fake it before Americans!

[Vince Twelve]

if the big bang did happen what was outside that one...thing that voused the explosion.
you probably think nothing. buthow can there be just empty space with no gas or materia in it?

But that's what space is... empty space with no gas or material in it.  Also known as a vacuum.  Though, most of space isn't perfect vacuum...

So what was outside the big bang?  That's the same as asking what is outside our universe.  The big bang was not an explosion of stuff in the center of the universe, it was the start of the universe.  At some finite point in the past, the universe was an infinite density with and infinite temperature, but it started rapidly expanding and cooling.  Today, the universe is the size that it is, and tomorrow it'll be a little bigger.

As for what is outside of the universe, or what created the point of infinite density and temperature that we named "The Big Bang," that's a question far beyond internet debate, and definitely far beyond a thread about Roswell...  :

"Maybe" is what separates theory from a fact, so your paragraph was quite pointless

This is true, depending on syntax, but a theory is also backed up by evidence and is testable and verifiable, making a theory much stronger than conjecture, which your post was.

[Stupot]

This is my interpretation of the big bang.  It's by no means fact (before moox jumps on me again), but it's the only way I can get my head around the theory.  See if it makes sense to you.

Don't confuse 'space' and 'universe'.  Space is space... nothingness, and goes on for eternity.  The universe is every material thing that is in that space.  Before the big bang there was just space and a hell of a lot of material floating about.  Everything has a density, even the slightest piece of dust.  And everything with a density had a gravitational pull.

Over a period of unimaginable time, billions and billions of years, the tiny specs of dust would cling to each other, creating slightly larger bits of material with larger gravitational pulls.  And these larger pieces would cling to other larger pieces making their pull even stronger.

This would go on and on until eventually a big ball of matter had a gravitational pull so immense that it sucked everything in space into one tiny, microscopic point.  The whole universe (not space, that still goes on for eternity, but everything in space; the universe) was a tiny dot in the center of space.

This tiny dot became unstable and eventually gave up, exploding all this matter into the vacuum of space.  This was the birth of our universe and all the dust and molecules have since then clung to each other to create bodies of matter such as stars and planets and life, and one day in billions of years time one of these bodies will become so large and have such a strong gravitational force that it will suck everything again into one tiny point and the process will happen again again for eternity.  Just as it has happened an infinite number of times before.

What do you reckon?
Sorry it was way off topic, but I was inspired.

[Vince Twelve]

Don't confuse 'space' and 'universe'.  Space is space... nothingness, and goes on for eternity.  The universe is every material thing that is in that space.

Don't confuse 'space' with 'vacuum' which is a volume of space that is devoid of matter.  But we know that there is no such thing as a perfect vacuum according to quantum theory, meaning that all space contains matter, even if the density is far far lower than the kind of density that we can artificially create here on Earth.  So, vacuum is part of the universe too.

The universe isn't something floating in space.  Space is something floating in the universe.  There is nothing outside of the universe because there is no outside.  The universe is finite and expanding, but while it expands, it's not taking space or volume away from something else, it's creating that volume.

The idea that the universe is bound for a Big Crunch, and eventually, another Big Bang is not a unique one, and while plausible, some recent studies have suggested that the universe's expansion is, in fact, accelerating rather than being slowed by gravity, which would suggest that the universe will not collapse, but will expand forever. 

I for one, can't wait to find out what happens.  I'll make popcorn! 

[Stupot]

Yeh, and I'll set up the deckchairs.  It's a sick joke that we spend so much time debating and wondering about these questions, but when the answer comes we'll all be long dead and won't be able to record it.

[evenwolf]

Eric, thanks for Muller's lecture.    Dont know why I havent seen articles about the declassification.     Explanation rocked my socks off.

[arthur.com]

Arthur, you're proposing a race of alien beings with such amazing technology that they can travel vast distances through space and yet don't realize that other planets have different gravity?

We can travel to the mars and we dont know if there was water

[MrColossal]

That... is completely different.

How intelligent would say a human was to just not know that there is no air in the ocean and jump in to explore it and drown in the process? Not very intelligent at all right?

Now imagine that human just travelled 200 million light years and drowned the first 2 minutes of arrival.

[Darth Mandarb]

We can travel to the mars and we dont know if there was water

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/solarsystem/opportunity_water.html

Not only WAS there water on Mars ... there still is.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/mars/news/mgs-20061206.html

It should also be pointed out that, while impressive, traveling to Mars is VASTLY different than traveling to another star system.  Not really something that should even be compared in my opinion.

[RickJ]

Big Bang
Hmmm, Lets see if  I can get it right.

• The  universe, that is all of time, space, matter, and energy began as a singularity.   This singularity is not a point in space because all of space and time is contained within that point.  There is no such thing as "outside" or "before".
  
• At time=0s our universe came into exsistence.  At time=10^-43s, The universe was very small, dense, and hot.  Atoms could not even form at this time because of the energy density.    Nobody knows why it started or what happened before time=10^-43s (google Planck time, Max Planck, Heisenber, Uncertanity Principle).  Blame it on God if you like.
  
• After time=10^-43s space began expanding and carried everything else (matter and energy) along with it.  This is quite different than an explosion where a dense collection of matter and energy expands into pre-existing space.
  
• As time passes and space expands and everthing gets cooler.  At some point atoms are able to form and gravtationally attract each other and eventually form gallaxies, stars, planets, etc.  About 14 billions years later here we are with the present universe.
  
• The universe contains a finite amount of energy and matter.  It's ultimate  fate depends upon how much there is.  If there is more than a certain amount then the universe is said to be closed (spherical shaped) and will end in a "Big Crunch" as described by Stupot.   If there is less than a certain amount of matter and enegry then the universe is said to be open (saddle shaped) and will expannd for eternity.  If the amount of energy and matter is exactly a certain amount then the universe is said to be flat and I can't remember if the expansion continues indefinately or stops at some point.   Current measurements show that it is very close to being flat however there is recent evidence that the expansion is accelerating (google dark eneryg, dark matter).
  
• Stephen Hawking points out similarities between the Big Bang and black holes.  Being in our universe is in some ways like being in a black hole.   This leads others to speculate about      multiple universes, before/after our universe, etc..  Some even take this idea to the point of meta-physical and/or mystical nonsense.
  
• Relativity and Quantum Mechanics have almost nothing to say about what actually happens inside black holes or before 10^-43 seconds in the Big bang.  String Theory, fully developed, may provide some future insights into these topics.
  

Roswell
I used Occam's Razor to make the following conclusions:

• The incident happened just after WWII and at the beginning of the cold war between the Soviets and the US.  This was a time when there were massive amounts of top secret military research, espionage and counter-espionage.
  
• Top secret military research was being conducted at the nearby air base.  The something that crashed was the product of military research, not alien intelligence.   
  
• The US didn't want the Soviets to know what they were doing so they quickly picked up the debris, suppressed news stories, planted fake news stories, etc.  The public's imagination did the rest.
  
• During this time science fiction was in it's golden age.  Assimov, Heinlien, Phol, Ray Bradbury and many others were writting for radio programs magazines, etc.  Rockets were used quite successfully near the end of the war and so there were on everyone's mind. 
  

Now really, do you actually think that a spacecraft capable of greater than light speed would be constructed of the tin foil shown in the photo below?   And don't you think that such a craft would make a bigger kaboom if it crashed than what was reported in Roswell in 1947?     

[Stupot]

Good post.

But...

The  universe, that is all of time, space, matter, and energy began as a singularity.   This singularity is not a point in space because all of space and time is contained within that point.  There is no such thing as "outside" or "before".

I can't find the logic to get my head around this... that singular point had to 'be' somewhere, and the only way I can think to look at it is that it was suspended in space (which is infinite and eternal and always has been and always will be).  Space itself wasn't in that point, only everything else.  All the molecules of everything that is IN space were in that singular point, but space itself is not made of anything, it's just nothingness.

I'm not saying that your statement is false and mine is right, but I think if people start thinking of the universe as 'everything in space' instead of space being something that is in the universe, then it's a hell of a lot easier to comprehend (for me).

[Vince Twelve]

I'm not saying that your statement is false and mine is right, but I think if people start thinking of the universe as 'everything in space' instead of space being something that is in the universe, then it's a hell of a lot easier to comprehend (for me).

Unfortunately, according to people much smarter than you or I and who have spent far longer contemplating and studying it, this may be easier to comprehend, but it's also wrong.  That singularity wasn't floating in anything.  Before the big bang, there were no dimensions.  Thus, it wasn't floating in anything.  It just wasn't, and then it was.  And then it was bigger.  The universe isn't just matter that is spreading out.  It's matter and the absence of matter.  There was no matter or the absence of matter before the big bang.

Excellent post RickJ!

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

HUGE logical fallacy, Progz, your argument is even thinner. Do you have statistics on deathbed confessions?

Do you actually need statistics to logically assume that a vast number of people who are dying want to leave the world with a clear conscience?  I realize your fascination with specific data Eric but seriously, where's your proof that a majority of people would even bother to lie to people when they're about to die?  Would it even make sense vs. telling the truth?  Let's face it, a great majority of people who are alive are afraid of death for whatever reasons, and the approaching event tends to make people question their decisions in life and if they should leave it with anger/lies/hate/etc.  I'm not arguing that he couldn't have had alzheimers or something, but a top military official in possession of his faculties (if he was indeed) making such a statement isn't something I would derive a joke or lie from. 

At any rate you clearly have your opinion and I clearly have mine and neither will sway the other.  Such is the pointlessness of internet discussions.

[MrColossal]

I'm not saying he's lying. He could be deluded, confused, wrapped up in his own conspiracy theories for too long... And yes, I need some sort of statistics before I go assuming that dying people tell 100% unbiased truth, sorry? There are reasons to check up on things like this because it's very easy to fall into bad thinking.

also, reading up on him, his story changed around 2000, he decided he was more involved with the "incident" than he originally said and then he prepared a new story to be released upon his death.

Pointlessness of internet discussions, whatever... I ask a question and things go pointless all of the sudden. I'm personally quite interested in knowing if there is any data on deathbed confessions, it would help to come to a conclusion about this...

[RickJ]

I'm not arguing that he couldn't have had alzheimers or something, but a top military official in possession of his faculties (if he was indeed) making such a statement isn't something I would derive a joke or lie from.

There is also the possibility that he was asked by the military to pass on dis-information via a death bed statement.

[lo_res_man]

[quote

Big Bang

Thats no spaceship, thats my body!

Bender

[Afflict]

Are weather balloons made out of foil? 

Secondly why do most of  these sightings happen in Mexico?

Do you really think that the the army would be interested in a broken weather balloon? (Maybe they were trying to create a diversion or just spice up the media a bit, who knows)

[Stupot]

...according to people much smarter than you or I and who have spent far longer contemplating and studying it, this may be easier to comprehend, but it's also wrong.

These people are indeed smart most of the time but they also talk a lot of bollards.  These are the same people who invent new dimension everytime they have a new theory just to make the maths fit.

Before, there were three (four if you include time but I don't)... when they'd spent far too much time trying to get people to believe in string-theory but couldn't get the maths to work so they fabricated [I think it was] 6 or 7 new dimensions and said "they're there, they're just too complicated for the human brain to comprehend".

Bollocks!!!  They just moved the goalpost in a ball game most people don't know the rules to and pretended it was perfectly fine practice to do so.

I think they're up to about 22 dimensions now and I'm sure when the next big theory comes along that can't be explained using conventional maths they'll just widen the goalposts even further... Just don't expect to be allowed to see the rulebook.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Stupot, that's what science is, pretty much. Accepting that nothing is true and established. Question everything. If they need to alter a few known and established laws, they'll do it - and see if everything still works. If it doesn't, they'll undo the alterations. If it does, we'll just move forward a bit. It's rather like the constitution, really. Depending on a number of factors, it can be ammended in order to remain the CONSTITUTION.

[Stupot]

Haha, the constitution's been amended so many times I'm not even sure any of the original words are left on it.